| ▲ | juancroldan a day ago |
| Facebook is now a birthday-reminder and old-connection-keeper tool loaded with empty content to feel less sad. Instagram and TikTok are also trending towards content consumption. Messaging and group chats are the only real social media now |
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| ▲ | wil421 a day ago | parent | next [-] |
| Facebook groups are like the new Internet forums. There’s tons of stuff that’s moved to Facebook groups like Fishing and Car forums. For a lot of content Facebook groups are much better than forums. Marketplace seems to be the new Craigslist and much better IMHO. Posting is probably dead or dying. I haven’t done it in a decade or so. |
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| ▲ | ultrarunner a day ago | parent | next [-] | | They could be huge in this, but sadly they'll continue to ruin it because (IMHO) they are rotten at the core. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a question posted on a relevant topic, switched tabs to consult the manual to verify my memory, and then gone back only to see Facebook do its ADHD reload and bury the question. Once people get sufficiently frustrated and the ad revenue declines below the cost of running the servers, we will immediately lose all of the information shared there. None of it will be archived like the old forums. It's a genuinely sad situation. | | |
| ▲ | bschwindHN a day ago | parent [-] | | > and then gone back only to see Facebook do its ADHD reload and bury the question Does anyone know why facebook does this? It's the most infuriating thing, like it's assuming the poor user doesn't know how to "refresh" a page so it does it for them, because clearly they got stuck on an old crusty piece of content. | | |
| ▲ | zoky 21 hours ago | parent [-] | | You know exactly why they do it. To generate “engagement”. |
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| ▲ | HeadsUpHigh a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >For a lot of content Facebook groups are much better than forums Facebook groups are very disjointed and the algo does a bad job and keeping the good bits floating to the top. | |
| ▲ | spacechild1 21 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > For a lot of content Facebook groups are much better than forums. How so? I find FB groups strictly worse than old-school forums. | |
| ▲ | Lammy 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I don't even enjoy FB Groups any more because of the way they filter comments to “most relevant” so I have to click twice to change it to “all comments” on every single post, over and over and over. Tiresome. It's embarrassingly dumb sometimes, too, like a post can show “3 comments”, I click it, and the “most relevant” will just be two of them with a bunch of empty space left over in the UI. Just show me all of the fucking comments omfg!!! | |
| ▲ | shanecleveland a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Only reason I caved and joined Facebook a few years ago was to get access to a group dedicated to Boston Whaler boats. There were two previously-thriving forums that were slowly dying. The forums were great. The Facebook group was not better, just alive. | |
| ▲ | freehorse 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Also events, it's probably the platform affecting discoverability of events the most. The ways fb is (still) the most useful to users are the ones meta cares the least about. | |
| ▲ | throw042425 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That's interesting. In what sense would you say FB groups are much better than forums? But yeah I agree, groups and marketplace are the only things keeping FB alive. | | |
| ▲ | iamacyborg a day ago | parent [-] | | They’re better in the sense that people actually use them | | |
| ▲ | shanecleveland a day ago | parent [-] | | Probably true with most successful things. Marketplace is just a low barrier to entry for people already using Facebook. I find it generally terrible, but that's where people are selling. |
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| ▲ | dboreham a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | In my experience the Facebook groups always turn to crap, especially if it's a group that attracts more than about 500 users. Abusive posts, scam posts, fake groups with the same name created by bots. I've reverted to old school forums for all my special interests. Marketplace is still the best classifieds product though. | | |
| ▲ | freehorse 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | It depends on the mods and the specific communities the groups are about. I have seen what you describe in some, but not at all in others. |
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| ▲ | naijaboiler a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | would rather use reddit for foruming than facebook groups | | |
| ▲ | freehorse 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | I would rather have ol' good forums. I would rather have years long posts in the frontpage and the ability to bump a long burried post when new info is up, and not missing the opportunity to engage with a topic just because 1-2 days passed without me logging in and thus the post, being more than 1-2 days old, is not in the frontpage anymore. |
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| ▲ | a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | corobo a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Ooh speaking of birthday reminders - if Facebook is browsing this thread looking for things to fix: bring back the birthday iCal feed! You literally had notifications via my calendar bringing me back to your site every few days/weeks to say happy birthday and maybe have a bit of a browse. Now the reminders are in my todo list and I say happy birthday via text or call instead. Path of least pain in the backside. Absolutely bizarre they ditched the birthdays and events iCal feeds. |
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| ▲ | barbazoo a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Funny that you think they’d prioritize something that’d be useful, good for you. | | |
| ▲ | pixl97 a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Boss: "you're only allowed to work on things that serve more ad views" | |
| ▲ | reverendsteveii a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Remember when they told us that capitalism would cause people to trip over themselves to give us what we want and need because that would naturally be where most of the profit could be had? Why do you think it didn't do that in this case? The answer of course is that facebook does serve it's customers. It serves the people who can afford to buy ads, and what it serves them is you. | | |
| ▲ | asimpletune a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Honestly, everything would be much better if either a.) people just paid for stuff or b.) governments decided ad-tech in its present form should not be a thing, and regulated the retention of personal data as a liability, to make targeted advertising less-personalized/unprofitable. As a system for discovering price, free markets work really well. The downsides comes from politicians not understanding/caring the limitations of free markets and what kinds of problems they're simply not intended to solve. These are the economic factors beyond price. More broadly, they're our values. If we outsource the need for philosophy/wisdom to the free markets then there is no reason why the market will not demand child labor, 7 day work weeks, single use everything, and privatized security forces. We failed to take action earlier, and the same kind of stuff has already happened to the environment. Not to mention that gambling and security fraud are making a comeback. | | |
| ▲ | reverendsteveii 19 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'm 100% with you on the idea that it's time to start paying for services on the internet instead of the ad-funded model we have today. The problem is that the people who decide when and how to monetize things seem to be moving toward a model where they charge you for the service, sell your data and feed you ads. |
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| ▲ | anonymars a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The missing ingredient is usually "competition" Same thing with the "private sector is always better" religion - if there's no meaningful competition, you end up no choice coupled with a profit motive, vs. no choice but I can at least nominally vote and be represented ISPs are usually a good example in the US. My old apartment had one provider, and wouldn't you know it, at my new apartment with multiple providers, I got five times the bandwidth for half the price. See also: enshittification | | |
| ▲ | reverendsteveii a day ago | parent | next [-] | | In light of competition being the missing ingredient, the question becomes how does one maintain ongoing competition in a system where the bigger of two competitors tends to win and the winner of two competitors tends to get bigger? That's exactly what happened here: Facebook was bigger than WhatsApp, and FB+WA is bigger than Insta, so FB+WA+Insta is a lot bigger than anyone else. Back in the day when Microsoft was the one in the DoJ's sights someone compared it to a dog race. Dogs don't have jockeys, so you have to figure out some other way to induce them to run. The way most tracks (probably all, idk much about dog racing but it's a useful metaphor here) do that is by having a mechanical bunny that runs out ahead of the dogs and activates their prey drive. The bunny has to be ahead of the dogs, but not so far ahead that they don't think they can catch it and give up. That means that every once in a while a dog will get the timing just right, go extra hard, and actually catch the bunny. At that point, the race is over for everyone until someone steps in to shake the dog loose from the bunny and give everyone a reason to run again. Our system is like that: we have to encourage everyone to do everything they can to catch the bunny but also ensure that they never actually do. Bill Gates was the first person in my memory to catch the bunny, and needed to be shaken loose. Now it's Zuckerberg, and probably Google, that need to be pried off of their respective bunnies so that everyone else has something to chase. | |
| ▲ | jerf a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The missing ingredient here is that there is a gulf between what people really need, and what they do. Capitalism/market forces/etc. optimize on that "what people really do" and not what they need, and especially not what they say they want. See also, for instance, the layout of your grocery store. The good news is that capitalism is in fact really good at serving exactly the preferences you reveal through your actions, and there are ways in which that is good. The bad news is that the farther away we get from our "native environment" the farther our needs and revealed preferences are diverging. I can think of no equivalent threat in our ancestral environment to "scrolling away your day on Facebook". Sloth and laziness aren't new, but that enticement to it is very new. The discipline to sit, think with your brain, and realize with your system 2 brain [1] that you need to harness and control your system 1 urges is moving from "a recipe to live a good life" (e.g., wisdom literature, Marcus Aurelius, Proverbs, Confucious, many many other examples dating back thousands of years), but one a lot of people lived reasonably happily without, to a necessity to thrive in the modern environment. Unfortunately, humans have never, ever been collectively good at that. And the level of brutality that system 2 must use on system 1 is going up, too. Resisting an indulgent dinner is one thing; carrying around the entire internet in your pocket and resisting darned near every vice simultaneously, continuously, is quite another. In my lifetime this problem has sharpened profoundly from minor issue to major problem everyone faces every hour. For a much older example, see "drugs". Which is also a new example as the frontier expands there, too. I have no idea what a solution to this at scale looks like. But I am quite optimistic we will ultimately find one, because we will have to. The systems can't just keep getting better and better at enticement to the short-term with no other social reaction. [1]: https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/philosophy/system... | |
| ▲ | thesuitonym 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Or, hear me out, what about "competition exists but I also get to vote and be represented." Where I live, there are two ISPs, the local cable conglomerate, and a telecom coop. The cable company, as you might expect, is completely and utterly awful. They go for all of cable's greatest hits, from low introductory payments that explode after the first year, to service that is constantly down, to sending you to collections for equipment you returned. They do it all. The speeds are slow, and the customer service is non-existent. The coop, on the other hand, is beyond delightful. The speed always exceeds what I'm paying for, and every couple of years they readjust their packages to give me more speed for the same price. Only three times in almost a decade have I had any problems with them: One was an outage that was caused by a natural disaster, and the other two were problems with my ONT that were fixed next day at no charge. Oh, and since it's a coop, I get a check every year as part of the profit sharing. For me, it only equates to about a free month of service, but it's still pretty nice. So I guess the tl;dr of it all is that you don't need to get rid of free markets to have social control of things. And since the profits go to the people paying for the service, there's no incentive to extract extra value, so there's no real enshitification. |
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| ▲ | ryandrake a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | And, any time some company gets close to "give us what we want and need," the company will be bought by Facebook, or funded by VCs, and new ownership will "correct" the problem. |
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| ▲ | corobo a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Haha of course. I was probably just one of a mere few hundred million people using it in a way that brought me back to the algorithm so it got scrapped for underutilisation :( | |
| ▲ | philjohn a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | They already send an email or push notification ... so yeah, there would be very little metric movement to justify this as having enough impact for year end PSC. | |
| ▲ | fallingknife 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | We don't pay them, so really why would they? I don't do work for people who don't pay me either. |
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| ▲ | jandrese a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | iCal feeds don't bring you into the site. The whole point of Facebook is to be a walled garden that discourages you from going elsewhere. You're lucky they are not like X and deprioritize external links. Or maybe they do, I have not tested it myself. https://theoatmeal.com/comics/reaching_people | | |
| ▲ | corobo a day ago | parent [-] | | I would click the link in the event to go say happy birthday to the person! I guess I wasn't the norm though aye, it's big numbers that matter |
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| ▲ | sunnybeetroot 21 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Sounds like you use iOS? Add the birthday to the friend’s contact and it’ll appear in your calendar automatically. You’re welcome in advance. |
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| ▲ | dspillett a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Facebook is now a birthday-reminder It isn't even good at that. I'll often see “it was [whoever]'s birthday yesterday” when I did login on the last couple of days, and it didn't bother to mention the fact then. Too many ads and pointless reals to show me on those days, to have space to insert the now/upcoming birthday reminder, presumably. |
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| ▲ | mrspuratic a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| "mbasic.facebook.com" was a vastly simpler UI, and had notably less noise content.
Sometimes "back" navigation even worked properly. They killed that last year :/ Were it not for distant family using it, I would almost certainly download my content and nuke my account. |
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| ▲ | endemic a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Messaging and group chats are the only real social media now This is accurate as far as I'm concerned. Interacting directly with actual friends; no ads or clickbait content injected. |
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| ▲ | reverendsteveii a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I was thrilled to find out that I can block facebook.com in my etc/hosts and still have access to messenger. Hard limiting the time I spend being "social" with robots and hostile outsiders has gone from being a good idea to being a survival strategy as we got further into the industrialization of the attention economy. |
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| ▲ | diggan a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Instagram and TikTok are also trending towards content consumption Huh? They were explicitly built for that purpose, not "trending towards". Without content consumption, those platforms are nothing. |
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| ▲ | KeplerBoy a day ago | parent [-] | | I guess he meant content produced by "professional" content creators with the only goal of earning money instead of interesting pictures from your friends' life. At least that's how I experience Instagram these days. It's a chat app where people send each other content made by others in the DMs. Very few of the people I know personally have posted in the last few years, but most of them seem to casually use the app to explore whatever the algorithm shows them. |
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| ▲ | boringg a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Actually it's biggest value is marketplace though the scammers know that too. |
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| ▲ | wintermutestwin a day ago | parent [-] | | Marketplace is the absolute worst UX I could imagine. | | |
| ▲ | slt2021 a day ago | parent [-] | | highly overpaid Facebook engineers must be forced to use Marketplace to try to buy their cars, instead of buying from a dealer. maybe that way they would improve things a bit |
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| ▲ | xyst a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Anybody worth keeping in contact with, I have their phone number. The only use for Facebook is for the marketplace. |
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| ▲ | the_af a day ago | parent [-] | | Sadly for me, there's another use case for Facebook: special interest groups (as in niche groups for hobbies). When the Great Migration away from phpbb forums and bulletin boards happened, lots of these groups moved to Facebook. I loathed it, but joining the migration was the only way of keeping up with stuff that interested me. Now there's another Great Migration to Discord, which I won't follow. Real-time chat simply triggers my FOMO and is stressful to me. So any community that moves primarily to Discord will lose me as a member. I suppose nobody will miss me though. |
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| ▲ | yieldcrv a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| (now as in 10 years ago) |
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| ▲ | bentcorner a day ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Discord are where the kids are at. But with them going public it's going to enshittify quickly and it's only a matter of time before they move onto something new. |