Remix.run Logo
ViewTrick1002 a day ago

If you can't handle volatile prices and know your demand in advance then simply by PPAs or energy futures?

You know, the standard method all markets use to handle volatility. But apparently electricity is different and we need enormous subsidies instead.

belorn a day ago | parent | next [-]

Electricity is a bit of different in that it is an general utility, closely attached to government for delivery and production, and historically dependency on natural resources or caused pollution (social impact). Electricity is also essential in many places for human survival, and is critical for economical growth and social stability. During war, electricity is treated different from other commodities in a very clear way.

But my point is that all that isn't necessary the important part. The voting population are not always rational participants in the market, nor are companies. There are Nash equilibriums and strategies with local maximums that results in irrational consumer behavior. When there are major social consequences from irrational behavior then people will look towards social, ie political solutions. That generally means regulation, subsidies and if all else fails, government control. The only way to avoid that is to either eliminate the social consequences, or eliminate irrational behavior.

nradov a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's simply not realistic to expect consumers or most small businesses to participate in futures markets. And futures markets sometimes break down with the counterparty failing to deliver. That's not a problem with most commodities but electricity shortages cause real problems.

schiffern a day ago | parent | next [-]

I expect the only viable solution left is to go around the meter using an aggregator like Tesla Autobidder. A large entity consolidates many home batteries as one "virtual" battery, handles the grid futures prediction and dispatching for a cut, and re-distributes a majority of revenue back to the battery owners.

This effectively uses the existing behind-the-meter grid market to make an end-run around current perverse (non-local, non-instantaneous) end-customer pricing schemes.

physicsguy 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

They already do - here in the U.K. you can fix your energy price for 12-24 months typically which is a gamble in the future price of energy.

ZeroGravitas 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Though in that case the exact prediction made did come true. Massive gas price increases due to the Ukraine war bankrupted a bunch of businesses selling fixed price energy that they could no longer supply without making unsustainable losses.

Various government interventions followed but they were so bad you might assume that they were more interested in ensuring their mates in the gas industry made high profits than protecting the nation from the fallout.

blitzar 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I suspect the real failure mode was around the price cap. Utilities should have been hedging against wholesale prices raising above the cap for a sustained period of time as occured. Net-net the result is the same and the cents in the dollar saved when prices were normal / stable were long gone when prices went much higher. (Note in the UK at least we have been in payback for a long time now with customer pricing at the cap and wholesale typically much much lower)

swamp_donkey 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think it is different than other commodities since it is very expensive to store electricity. A diesel powered generator and tank full of diesel is probably the best option.

21 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]