It concerns me how discussions, such as this one go on HN. This is an important topic. With the epidemic of obesity we now find a drug that appeals to a large number of people. This is an important topic as well.

What is the current comment receiving most of the comment?

"That's the sort of headlines that smells like bullshit to me"

That's the sort of comment that smells like bullshit to me. What kind of place is this?

Many times I find the posts on HN interesting, but increasingly these kind of comments make me wonder about Y Combinator. Is this really the best they can do?

And for us readers who are supposed to be so called hackers, is this the best we can do?

It is my own perception that HN has gotten worse in the six months but these sort of "meta" discussions can be as much part of the problem as part of the solution or possibly a bad smell.

My take it this.

The median scientific paper is wrong. I wrote a wrong paper. The average biomedical paper doesn't fit the standards of the Cochrane Library mostly because N=5 when you need more like N=500 to have a significant result. Since inflationary cosmology fundamental physics has been obsessed with ideas that might not even be wrong.

It's well known that if you lose a lot of weight through diet (and even exercise) you are likely to lose muscle mass. With heavy resistance exercise you might at best reduce your muscle loss if you don't use anabolic steroids and similar drugs. That you could have changes in heart muscle with using these weight loss drugs isn't surprising for me at all and it's the sort of thing that people should be doing research both in the lab and based on the patient experience.

(Funny you can get in trouble if you do too much exercise, spend 20 years training for Marathons and you might get A-Fib because you grew too much heart muscle instead of too little.)

A lot of the cultural problem now is that people are expecting science to play a role similar to religion. When it came to the pandemic I'd say scientists were doing they best they could to understand the situation but they frequently came to conclusions that later got revised because... That's how science works. People would like some emotionally satisfying answer (to them) that makes their enemies shut up. But science doesn't work that way.

The one thing I am sure of is that you'll read something else in 10 years. That is how science works.

The HN you are yearning for disappeared about 8-10 years ago when it was largely taken over by normies and people way outside the hard-core-tech fold. It's not very different from Reddit front-page now if the topic is even remotely political.

For purely technical topics you expect good quality discussion, but those threads barely get comments in the two digits.

The developers of these new peptide-based hormone-acting drugs like semaglutide(ozempic) could be called biohackers, but the system they're hacking on - the human endocrine system - is a delicate system. Introducing semi-synthetic mimics of native hormones can go wrong in all kinds of ways, and hormone-analogue drugs have a poor track record (anabolic steroids, DES, etc.) so extra caution makes sense.

Semaglutide is based on a 31-amino acid polypeptide that mimics the human GLP-1 hormone. At position 26, the lysine side chain is conjugated with a fatty diacid chain, to slow degradation and prolongs half-life, and there are some other modifications. However, the target - the GLP receptor - is not just expressed in the intestinal tract but all through the body, in muscle, central nervous system, immune system, kidneys and others. So some unexpected effects beyond the desired ones are likely.

Semaglutide was recently shown to have potent effects on the heart, and possibly beneficial to certain heart disease conditions associated with obesity. Makes me suspect this drug should be restricted to clinically obese cases where strong intervention with close medical supervision is needed. However for healthy people who just want to lose a relatively small amount of weight it really doesn't seem wise.

"Semaglutide ameliorates cardiac remodeling in male mice by optimizing energy substrate utilization..." (June 2024)

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-48970-2

I agree with your desire for what HN should be, and disagree with your assessment that the top voted comment doesn’t support it.

HN is the only forum I know of that has broadly grasped that most so-called “science” outside of the hard sciences and mathematics is complete garbage and driven by funding needs. The world is awash in non-knowledge. This is an extremely serious issue.

Building the skill to rapidly come to a preliminarily judgement of a headline is crucial.

I agree 100%. Those kinds of comments have no place, and add little to nothing to the discussion. Many HN discussions outside of pure tech invite all kinds of crazy and uninformed comments -- health/diet, finance/economy, etc.

After I saw yesterday’s thread about politics in science was flooded with new sockpuppet accounts named after slurs spreading filth and downing everything they don’t agree with I no longer expect anything meaningful from comments here.

I have noticed this too. The site guidelines say 'no low effort comments', but low effort comments that fit the general zeitgeist are often allowed, while well-thought-out ones that disagree are downvoted. If anyone has a suggestion for an alternative forum focused on technology and science, I really would love suggestions.

For that reason HN should just remove the down/up votes, because it will turn this place to an echo chamber like reddit, these brownie points are useless.

What exactly do you think this forum is if you think this forum is above such sentiments?

Disagree. The “hacker ethos”, to me, is laypeople taking a crack at things without pretension.

Your comment lacks any substantive argument about the comment you complain about.

Apparently the topic is “important”. To me an appeal to importance when policing style spells like bullshit.

To be fair, that comment was about the claim:

> emerging research showing that up to 40 per cent of the weight lost by people using weight-loss drugs is actually muscle

Which is… obviously bullshit.

[dead]

The cure for obesity isn't a pill.

Remember in the 80's and 90's when exercising and being healthy was considered a cool thing? Remember there was a gym on every corner and people were all about looking good and being healthy, eating healthy and living longer?

Then somewhere. . .

- We started normalizing obesity.

- We started this whole "body positivity" trend that celebrating morbidly obese people like Lizzo as positive role models was a good thing?

- We started introducing fat mannequin models in retail stores because being obese shouldn't have a stigma?

Obesity is a problem because we, as a culture have completely normalized obesity. Instead of promoting healthy diets and exercises and saying being obese has consequences like shortening your life and will make you susceptible to various diseases like diabetes and heart disease? All we've done is told people its ok to be obese and eat sugary drinks and over processed foods, because you can just have surgery and that will fix it. Or you can take a pill and that will fix it.

IT WON'T.

IT NEVER WILL.

We've gone down a road that is staggeringly dangerous because we've accepted being morbidly obese as something that's completely normal.