I have a 12th Gen Intel Framework from work. I cannot recommend Framework as a brand.

Yes, they are repairable. That is where the list of Pros ends for me. Perhaps the only unique selling point is being able to upgrade the motherboard later, but...

The screen, keyboard, touchpad, and IO are all inferior to a ThinkPad.

You can only ever have 4 ports, which is considerably less than your average PC laptop of similar dimensions and weight will have.

ThinkPads and other corporate-tier machines are dirt cheap used after 3-4 years, and finding spare parts for them is usually a non-issue as long as you don't mind eBay. Lenovo will happily sell you parts for a few years after the laptop is released, although availability and pricing are not great.

Framework had a partnership to only sell Western Digital SSDs when I ordered mine, and it later came to light that WD had serious firmware issues with these models resulting in sudden data loss. [1]

Additionally, the 12th Gen model has received ONE firmware update in over a year since release. [2] While Framework have committed to delivering more frequent firmware updates, they don't have a good track record there. No LVFS support either, so you have to burn a USB stick to update.

Prior to the firmware update, I've had the laptop completely discharge the battery while powered off, refuse to power up until being connected to a charger for ~15 minutes, and then display a large error saying the screen and battery were not connected (they were).

Even after the firmware update, I still have issues with phantom battery drain when the laptop is completely powered off.

[1] https://community.frame.work/t/tracking-wd-black-sn850-sudde...

[2] https://knowledgebase.frame.work/en_us/framework-laptop-bios...

I have the exact opposite experience of this person. My 12th gen framework had been great. I've replaced the keyboard after spilling water on it, the hinges, and they even replaced my power adapter because the right angle USB was flaky. Repairs have been a breeze... I had ThinkPads for over 20 years, probably 7 of them. Their era is over, sorry but the last good ThinkPad was the 220. Fwiw, I tried to buy a ThinkPad before my framework, their site said it was available in two weeks. Three months later, after no reply, my order was canceled due to some US law that automatically triggers if you cannot deliver in a reasonable time frame. Got the framework in three days. Wish I got the AMD one, but whatever I can upgrade later.

Totally agree on older Lenovos. The last truly great laptop I owned was a Lenovo T530. It felt like it was built out of recycled Soviet era tanks, was completely modular, swapped out the CD ROM and replaced it with another hard drive, upgrading ram was a breeze, etc.

It was a bit on the chunkier side, but that thing hummed on for a decade of constant usage with not a single problem.

Yeah I’d vote thinkpad. They’re tanks and have a ton of support. I do think though that the framework line will get better with time.

I love mine and have had it for a few years now and upgraded it's motherboard from 11th gen to 12th gen i7, and successfully easily replaced the keyboard after a coffee spill, upgraded the battery to a new slightly higher capacity one when the original battery puffed up.

And this is all true. I love mine but frankly I have to admit I make excuses for it. It's almost really good. It has a lot of really good qualities, and lot of bad qualities that erase the good.

That 11th gen motherboard I replaced? I bought their official extwrnal case, (and some ram and a wifi card with antennas from a local microcenter to make it functional) to make it into a stand alone computer, even though I have essentially no use for it. Well it's a good thing I have no use for it because a bios update bricked it.

They don't put out enough updates to actually fix problems and so problems just remain for the entire life of the thing, and the few updates they have put out are complete and utter dumpster fires that break in a dozen different ways.

That battery I replaced? It was only about 2 1/2 years old. Why did a brand new battery go all explody in only 2 1/2 years? I have 10 even 15 year old laptops with pouch cells inside that never puffed up. Maybe longer even. They no longer hold a charge but they never puffed up.

My screen never looked 100% good. It has uneven lighting and uneven color, and is overall a bit pink. I have tried to correct the pink with color profiles in X but never got it to look like the neighboring external monitors. But a profile can't fix uneven color or uneven lighting anyway. Luckily I just don't care that much since I use larger better external monitors for most things and I don't do any art work. But that is really a ridiculous thing to have to just accept when most other brands just have good looking screens.

Battery life is garbage. Do every possible trick you can in either linux or windows, get 4 hours.

Why do I even say I love it?

I don't know. As far as I can tell, I should not say that. I love the idea. I love the sales pitch.

The sales pitch is repairability right?

My daily driver before the Framework was a X1Carbon 5th gen. About a year after I got the Framework I decided to refurbish the thinkpad because it was still awesome. I got a new battery, cpu cooler, and usb port all pretty easily (though frim ebay and aliexpress not from Lenovo), and they were all easy to install. The machine came apart all with screws just like The Framework. The Framework just makes it official with help and documents, but actually I've never even looked at a single one of those qr code instruction links. I'm sure they're nice, and I'd preferr if Lenovo did the same thing, but in fact I don't actually need instructions for things that are screwed together and don't have obtuse hidden land mines where something will be destroyed by doing the obvious thing.

The lenovo repair was essentially exactly as easy even though it was totally unsupported by lenovo themselves.

But that X1 Carbon is 50x better to use. Way tougher. Screen is even. Keyboard is way better. Actual mouse buttons (something I personally value highly, I hate huge touch pads with no buttons like Apple and Framework has).

I don't know if a current X1 Carbon is as easy to work on as one as old as 5th gen, so this comparison may no longer be valid.