Wait until those big corporations start using LLMs to learn how to lock things down even further, or implement checks that disable your car when it detects alterations to the software “for safety reasons”, or go after drivers who do these things for loss of revenue, etc. A ‘94 Jeep will be fair game but a new car might not be.

▲ dns_snek 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They've been doing that for a decade. I think overall the balance will shift in our favor but Big AI labs will do everything they can to try and stop us.

Claude is quick to refuse to help with reverse engineering and I suspect it's only going to get worse over time.

▲

close04 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes, they have been on that road for years. Tesla showed everyone the way with things like always-on connectivity or not being able to change a headlight with another original one without Tesla’s blessing. What I meant is that whatever I can do with an LLM they can do more. And if they can invoke “safety” that'll keep the law on their side for some time.

As far as I can tell no manufacturer disables the car yet when detecting modifications, or take drivers to court for doing it, yet.

	▲	dns_snek 2 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		> What I meant is that whatever I can do with an LLM they can do more. That's true but we have the benefit of unlimited time, having physical control, the analog hole. > As far as I can tell no manufacturer disables the car yet when detecting modifications, or take drivers to court for doing it, yet. As far as I know cars are a special case in much of the world (US, EU, others?). Right to repair laws laws usually give you the right to use non-OEM parts. Aren't DMCA anti-circumvention provisions the bigger concern in the US? I think the EU has an exemption to allow reverse engineering for the purposes of interoperability and repair.
	▲	drnick1 2 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		> Tesla showed everyone the way with things like always-on connectivity Nothing prevents you from unplugging the cell modem. The car will still work.

▲ damowangcy 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>big corporations start using LLMs to learn how to lock things down even further

Why would they? They just need to fund lobbyist to make it illegal for any AI to reverse engineer anything copyrighted or with IP.

Sure, you can use open source AI to do it but not everyone will/can do it.

So, they don't need to ban everyone, they just need to make sure the final code isn't available freely on GitHub. That would minimize the damage, it's not a perfect solution but more than enough to protect the company.

	▲	spockz 5 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Ah the irony. (AI being trained illegaly on copyrighted content.)
	▲	bluefirebrand 3 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		> Why would they? They just need to fund lobbyist to make it illegal for any AI to reverse engineer anything copyrighted or with IP Making something impossible to do is more thorough than making it illegal to do

▲ SV_BubbleTime 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

New cars already have it.

Lockstep processors, hardware security modules with immutable unreadable keys, and PKI keys that the mfg holds the private for that can only be accessed on their online services.

It’s locked down now and this started in 2018 or so. It’s just worse now.

To automotive, there is really still no right to repair. They get around it by selling “3 day passes” to their service, but with their hardware and at their prices.

They’re all moving the Tesla system of more centralized brain systems which will be even more protected.

▲ misterderpie 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Sad to hear. I am not a car owner, but lived in the EU for most of my life. The consumer market owes quite some consumer rights to the EU, so I guess all we can do is hope that they'll eventually crack down on these measurements again.

	▲	PorciiVorbesc 4 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		> The consumer market owes quite some consumer rights to the EU Not for car owners/consumers in the EU. Auto makers and dealers get away with a lot of shady shit fucking over their customers in the EU all the time. For example we in the EU don't have the same trigger happiness of NHTSA mass recalls the Americans have, but matters of such auto issues/defects is left to individual member states or even at individual case by case to decide what action is needed, and responses are a lot weaker and more limp-dick than in the US, almost never leading to mass recalls, even for the same issues[1], mainly because the US is more litigious making car manufacturers to be on the edge and proactive to issues. Like sibling said, there are incentives to regulate stuff that has no impact on EU businesses, shit like USB-C or replaceable batteries, but they won't touch the auto industry to mandate easier repairs and less lock-downs. Brand & Models \| Defect \| US Action \| EU Action ------------------+--------------------+----------------+------------------ BMW (2011-2018) \| Coolant pump plug \| NHTSA recall \| Excluded from N20/N26 engines \| short / fire risk \| (720k+ cars) \| recall ------------------+--------------------+----------------+------------------ VW / Audi (08-13) \| Timing chain \| 10yr/100k mi \| No recall; case- 2.0T EA888 \| tensioner failure \| warranty + $ \| by-case goodwill ------------------+--------------------+----------------+------------------ Ford Focus/Fiesta \| DPS6 PowerShift \| 10yr/150k TCM \| No recall; few (2011-2016) \| transmission fail \| + buybacks \| buybacks/payouts ------------------+--------------------+----------------+------------------ Hyundai / Kia \| Theta II / Nu GDI \| 3M+ recalled + \| No mass recall (2011-2019) \| bearing/fire risk \| lifetime wrty \| (diff specs/plants) ------------------+--------------------+----------------+------------------ Tesla 3/Y/S/X \| Autopilot nag & \| 2M+ NHTSA OTA \| No EU recall (2021-2024) \| UI font compliance \| recalls \| (UNECE rules)
	▲	abletonlive 5 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		> The consumer market owes quite some consumer rights to the EU Let's be clear that it's just incentives. If the EU economy was based on creating companies and new products there would not be as many incentives for consumer "rights" there.

▲ dawnerd 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Which also has the real nifty benefit of a RRS via subscriptions!

▲ knowaveragejoe 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm hoping the slate truck will be different, and that whatever problems emerge out of giving consumers real control over the hardware they purchased doesn't hamstring the company somehow.

▲ CamperBob2 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They are now required to do just that, if they want to sell to the EU market. When you hear the term "cybersecurity," the real subject is the protection of revenue streams from attack by end users.

▲ DANmode 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Volkswagen shipped the same encryption key to the keys of something absurd like 100M vehicles.

Don’t hold your breath.