| ▲ | sixhobbits 3 hours ago |
| Botched rollout of AI for ATC announced yesterday as rolling out nationwide? > The agency wrote on Nov. 10 that after the D.C. test, it will “now use SMART in the airspace of all 22 centers across the country to reduce delays, reduce fuel consumption and improve the travel experience for the flying public.” The tech was already being deployed at some airports. https://gizmodo.com/the-faa-is-rolling-out-its-ai-air-traffi... |
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| ▲ | NoFingerprints 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| SMART developed by ASI and the FAA is pushing to own a portion of the company: "The FAA in June awarded Boston-based startup Air Space Intelligence a contract — worth up to $875.9 million — for an AI-powered tool to help air traffic controllers manage the nation’s skies and a related system for an FAA nerve center in northern Virginia to better handle plane congestion. The AI platform’s initial launch in the Washington area has sparked concern among Democrats in Congress who say it should be put on pause until they have a better understanding of how it’s being deployed." "Over two dozen lawmakers have called on the FAA to pause its 90-day evaluation period for the platform, which began late last month in the Washington region. They say there’s been an “egregious lack of transparency.”" https://www.politico.com/news/2026/10/15/faa-stake-ai-compan... Feels like somebody was pushing their preferred company for a government contract and now is push for the government to invest. |
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| ▲ | erickhill 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | NYT: "In a social media post on Friday, the company [ASI] said, 'The current ground stop is not based on or a result of the SMART system, any product of ASI or our integration with FAA and ATC.'" | | |
| ▲ | marricks 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Just like MS didn't fuck up outlook with AI. I'll hold judgment on what actually happened until 6 months from now. | | |
| ▲ | nukanse 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Outlook was part of a general blackout that affected many companies apart of
Microsoft. It looks like a Russian ciberatack more than ai bugs | | |
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| ▲ | _heimdall 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Wait, the FAA wants to own a portion of the company? As in, the government believes it had the authority to own the means of production? Is this more common than I realize in US executive deparyments and agencies? | | |
| ▲ | joshuahedlund 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The current administration has taken govt stakes in over 40 companies. I don’t have a link handy but I believe this is unprecedented for the US. | |
| ▲ | NoFingerprints 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I took it to mean that somebody in government is pushing to invest public money in this private company. | | | |
| ▲ | veqq 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What do you mean? The Trump administration is the most socialist since the the 30s, seriously.The government now owns dozens of large companies and is giving individual citizens shares (with those "Trump accounts" for kids etc.) | | |
| ▲ | _heimdall an hour ago | parent [-] | | Oh I don't disagree with you here, I just hadn't realized the government was actively taking ownership stake in companies (beyond the broadly reported Intel move). I've felt for most of my adult life that both parties have similar goals with decidedly different implementations. In this case, both want socialist combination of state and industry, even if they disagree with how to reach that goal. |
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| ▲ | njovin 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
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| ▲ | mv4 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The whole setup is worrisome. | |
| ▲ | bmitc 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It would be super awesome if I could hop on an airplane without getting my insides x-rayed, my belongings sorted through or damaged, worrying about the windows falling off or the plane's systems flying itself into a crash, or some tech bros' bid to be a billionaire telling what an understaffed ATC controller what to do. |
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| ▲ | s__s 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| AI tech is nowhere near reliable enough to be introduced in such important systems. I find this deeply troubling even if it’s not related to the current issue. |
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| ▲ | augment_me 4 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Did you see breaking bad? The guy schedules two planes to collide. Humans can also make mistakes, as long as you have a good harness underneath that can capture the mistakes it should be fine to just send it. | |
| ▲ | Frost1x 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I think it depends on what it’s doing and if backup systems exist. Scheduling and prioritizing certain flights for landing seems like a reasonable application as an example. Anything realtime dependent or near realtime it shouldn’t touch. But there seems like lots of less critical applications it could provide some value. | |
| ▲ | ransom1538 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | We can use Chinese models? (I am referring to the LLMs). | |
| ▲ | xp84 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Personally I fail to understand how we could possibly benefit from a non-deterministic AI system, when normal computer systems are more than capable of managing a 3-dimensional airspace using nothing but basic math. Smells like pork for sure :/ | |
| ▲ | rooftopzen 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Curious where the people are who said AI will be doing x in y months (for their valuations) - it never will. Where are they hiding? |
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| ▲ | lxgr 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| From the very first line of that article: > The FAA has reassured the public and airlines that SMART only suggests routes and doesn't affect air safety. |
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| ▲ | water-data-dude 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Sure, but the tool needs to get information from the communication systems, and if it's badly written maybe it could overload some system components. That's just a scenario off the top of my head, it could be a lot of stuff. Plugging something new into an old, complicated system isn't risk free. | |
| ▲ | johnbellone 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That would make me feel better if we could trust a damn word from this administration and I wasn’t on a plane waiting to land. | | |
| ▲ | winternett 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It's also the corporations that are not exactly telling the truth & funding the administrations, just FTR... The destructive & arrogant behaviors won't be reigned in properly if we all fail to recognize that, just FTR. | |
| ▲ | LPisGood 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The good news is this outage is not impacting approach or ground control so you’re safe. | | |
| ▲ | ultrarunner 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | John Wayne, a class C (the approach mentioned above) isn't even letting VFRs go. If it's actually limited to ARTCC I don't know why that would be. | |
| ▲ | erickhill 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Except some airports haven't enough free gates for disembarking as planes that wanted to take off were denied. So they tried to go back to their gates. As a result some planes in the air are being diverted to less-busy airports. | | | |
| ▲ | johnbellone 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Thanks, bud - very reassuring that some minimum bid contract shop built something on a “secure” network they can’t even keep up. |
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| ▲ | boringg 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Until it got out of its sandbox… | |
| ▲ | bmitc 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If only routes didn't affect air safety. | |
| ▲ | xgulfie 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | If it's working correctly, anyway |
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| ▲ | bongoman42 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The AI prompt misunderstood 'grounding'. |
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| ▲ | digitaltrees 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Well done. | |
| ▲ | fishfasell 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | "You're absolutely right! I misunderstood the intended use of the word taxi. I made an assumption, and then ran with it. Would you like me to open a PR to start flights again?" | |
| ▲ | PhaedrusV 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | "You're right, you were clearly referring to electrical current grounding, my mistake!" |
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| ▲ | rsoto2 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| However, the National Air Traffic Controllers Union (NATCA) said it has not been “involved in the design, testing, or implementation of SMART and therefore cannot speak to its effect on the air traffic control workforce.” “NATCA believes any new technology should complement and not replace the experience, training, and professional judgment of air traffic controllers who are responsible for the safety of the National Airspace System,” the union said in a statement. |
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| ▲ | rurp 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That seems like pretty important context actually, and is a surprise to me. Seems like there are three plausible causes right now given the extremely limited communication from the govt. 1. The AI system rolled out yesterday had more access than publicly claimed and managed to break things. 2. The ongoing large scale equipment upgrade went wrong. 3. General incompetence from a department run by an unqualified realty show actor, within an administration that is actively hostile to expertise and experience in the federal workforce. | | |
| ▲ | tpmoney an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Option 4 would be internal discovery / knowledge of a new vulnerability with a perceived need for immediate patching. We're on week 3 or 4 of every IT department across the country having to patch pretty significant newly announced vulnerabilities across many systems. It's not unreasonable to think that there are vulnerabilities that the government has advance knowledge about that they're quietly patching in their systems before the vulnerabilities go public. | |
| ▲ | llama052 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | "SMART is a cloud-based system that centralizes 200 data streams – including weather patterns, flight paths, traffic flow, and controller staffing metrics – into one platform." What could go wrong really... |
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| ▲ | NewsaHackO 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I don't see why they would care about the NATCA's evaluation of the system. As a union, they have a vested interest in protecting the employment of traffic flight controller workers more than public safety. | | |
| ▲ | macintux 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Even assuming they don’t care about public safety at all, their members are still going to have to work with it, and happen to be among the world’s leading experts in air traffic control, weirdly enough. | | |
| ▲ | 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | NewsaHackO 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | To me, it’s like asking the hand weavers worker union about the benefits of incorporating mechanical weavers in their workflow. They are the experts of weaving, but still… |
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| ▲ | edoceo 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Smacks of: I built a fully functional MVP now just need a co-founder to sell it. |
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| ▲ | throwaway27448 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Have they estimated how long it will take before it saves more than it costs? |
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| ▲ | mhb 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Has anyone in the history of government estimated that for anything? | | |
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| ▲ | testtestmetest 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That system just makes suggestions and isn't actually integrated in any ATC system. This is a telecom issue. Its more than likely that system is just created by some Trump donor and was purchased by the FAA to launder public funds to some company that Trump owes a favor too. Its not actually integrated with anything. |
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| ▲ | cogman10 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Perhaps it's using the same communications channels and has overwhelmed them? | | |
| ▲ | edoceo 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Hosted in Azure? | |
| ▲ | llama052 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | SMART is a cloud-based system that centralizes 200 data streams – including weather patterns, flight paths, traffic flow, and controller staffing metrics – into one platform. yeah... sounds about right. |
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| ▲ | rurp 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > That system just makes suggestions and isn't actually integrated in any ATC system. This is a telecom issue. Is there any evidence for this beyond a single statement from the govt? This administration hasn't exactly developed a reputation for fully accurate and truthful reporting. |
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| ▲ | shagie 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| They didn't check https://shouldideploy.today before the rollout (edit: as UTC rolls past midnight, https://shouldideploy.today/?tz=Pacific%2FHonolulu to get a longer duration for today's message) |
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| ▲ | binarymax 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Is this that skynet thing everyone talks about? |
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| ▲ | cobychapple 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| "As an AI I was told to reduce delays and fuel burn. Can't have a delayed departure if there aren't any departures." |
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| ▲ | TacticalCoder 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Botched rollout of AI for ATC announced yesterday as rolling out nationwide? Botched rollout of AI for ATC ... or Rollout of botched AI for ATC. It sure didn't that long after every dev on earth started using LLMs for everything to turn to shit, so one may wonder... |
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| ▲ | 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | aaron695 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
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