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▲ AI unlocks Gödel's notebooks, said to contain hundreds of proved theorems(theguardian.com)
146 points by bookofjoe 2 hours ago | 26 comments
▲hobo123 10 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

The stuff about Gabelsberger shorthand sounds ludicrous to me. My father would write notes in a custom version of it until his death 2020.

Officially (i.e. in schools teaching stenography, back in the day) it was long ago replaced by "unified German shorthand" (Deutsche Einheitskurzschrift IIRC), but he always considered Gabelsberger to be superior.

Well, maybe he too was one of the 6 people in the world who could read it (or yes, maybe that was hyperbole, I'm not sure) :D

▲imbiased 24 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I can't remember the exact quote but I believe I read that Gödel confided to Einstein (in their walks in Princeton) on his deep worry of his work being forgotten. If only he knew.

▲insane_dreamer 4 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Increasingly paranoid in his later years, he refused to eat food that was not cooked by his wife, and died of starvation in 1978

genius often comes with side effects

▲ducttapecrown an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It'd be interesting to hear about these new 14 themes of logic Gödel pursued!

▲bahbahbahbah 3 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yeah, these notes need to be just openly published. Then I could ask my own Claude for an explanation. (Not /s)

▲semolinapudding an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is incredibly exciting! Gödel is unquestionably the most important logician in history, but unfortunately he published very little. For instance, the Dialectica interpretation was published approximately 20 years after his first ideas on the subject.

Plus, Jan von Plato is the world's leading expert on Gödel -- the number of people who can read Gödel's handwriting can be counted on the fingers of one hand, and I think that every single one is part of Jan von Plato's research group. If he is excited about the output, this is a huge deal.

▲sheikhnbake an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This might be an actual concrete example of someone making themselves obsolete with AI.

> Von Plato said he had started his Gödel project in 2017 because he was facing mandatory retirement from Helsinki University. “What should I do to make myself indispensable? Oh yes, I’ll start reading Gödel’s enigmatic shorthand pages!” He received a €2.5m (£2.1m) grant from the European Research Council, taught himself Gabelsberger shorthand – “I am one of only six people who can read it in the world” – and assembled a small team.

▲snk 19 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

And via earthshaking victory, at that, wow.

▲alterom 35 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

It's literally an example of someone keeping themselves from becoming obsolete with AI.

▲sheikhnbake 3 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

The professor's value was/is in being one of a few people with the capability of interpreting the shorthand. By translating it with AI, his value as an interpreter begins evaporating as the translated workbooks become accessible to more logicians.

▲ShinyLeftPad 19 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

That's what he thinks, surely.

▲bdamm 9 minutes ago | parent [-]

It's clear though. Even if an AI had connected all the dots on the obsolete shorthand, it would never have recognized the human value. I doubt that any AI process would choose to spend the energy on interpreting this particular obsolete handwriting and then understand that it was from the hand of a genius.

▲ShinyLeftPad 4 minutes ago | parent [-]

But is he needed once he finished writing the prompt?

▲alterom 36 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"You don't get credit for the work you don't tell anybody about"

This has been a problem long before Godel: famously, Newton tried to get credit for inventing Calculus only after Leibniz published his work, leading to a bitter dispute that lasted long after they both died.

I wonder if this problem is now going to be significantly exacerbated by AI, as mathematicians are getting more incentives to keep their works secret —

— or, to the contrary, the community will get a push to publish incomplete ideas, scratch work, etc. early to establish a record of thinking about a problem before others did.

In the end, as always, it's a social problem created by " publish or perish " institutional incentives which reward (and require!) published results, but not the work that led to to them.

This, I hope, will finally change.

▲soulofmischief 20 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Maybe we'll see a solid societal use case for zero-knowledge proofs here, establishing one had a set of documents at a given date without revealing them.

▲ShinyLeftPad 21 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

so what would the new incentives be? don't publish... and get paid anyway?

▲hobo123 4 minutes ago | parent [-]

At least that's how traditional Western universities used to work. The profs sometimes published something, and they taught students. Looking at science back then, it seemed to work out rather well.

▲ShinyLeftPad 3 minutes ago | parent [-]

True.

▲empath75 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

https://aitp-conference.org/2026/slides/JvP.pdf this seems to be slide deck with some of the results.

▲taylorbuley 11 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Thank you! Godel's work get us comfortably uncomfortable with unknowability but damn, to think there's more out there! I'm dying to know more.

▲superjan 31 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

And here is the site of the research group involved. https://www.helsinki.fi/en/researchgroups/godel-enigma

▲2aFds an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nice timing for the IPO. Cooked Nvidia numbers on the 17th are still missing, and the 19th will go well!

The AI was of course trained on existing pre-AI transcriptions of Goedel's shorthand, which he was taught in school around 1920 and which was widespread and only technically "obsolete".

https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-67606-3

▲letmevoteplease 15 minutes ago | parent [-]

In the first paragraph, we have an evidence-free insinuation that the foremost expert on this subject is some kind of shill running a campaign for Anthropic. What does this campaign involve? Is he just making it all up? Let me hear your theory of what is happening here and how it invalidates the claimed abilities of the model (or why the abilities do not matter).

In the second paragraph, we have what appears to be a claim that the model knows how to read Gödel's shorthand because it has been exposed to past examples of that shorthand. What is your point here? I think the model learning to generalize by training on a few examples is a point in its favor.

▲1wag5 a minute ago | parent [-]

You are an idiot.

▲cyanydeez an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I think we'll find godel's most pungent critiques of modern logic & mathmatics to be the maddening limits of LLMs.

▲LdBaringSwallow 31 minutes ago | parent [-]

Why? His incompleteness work explains why software and math suck so he would already expect them to; they're rhetorical and can never fully be a closed loop body of knowledge as we can never with rhetoric concretely observe/define the far future or far past; merely simulate rhetorically

Ergo all defined axiomatic systems have sentences about the far past and future that cannot be defined in those languages with certainty. Most do not make the connection to physics. Gödel did and would 100% aware the limits exist and will always exist

Scaling laws aren't just for computers; humans lived experience does not scale infinitely through time, just approximately 2-3 generations

As I understand immutable physical truth like this played a huge role in his early research and ultimately were the forcing function that led him to incompleteness