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▲ pavlov a day ago

The USA is becoming a weird protectionist island of expensive and inefficient cars while the rest of the world is moving forward.

It’s not the first time of course. Something similar happened with banking, where the US got stuck in the mid-20th century with people still using paper checks, no access to instant digital transfers, etc.

▲gumby a day ago | parent | next [-]

US has been protectionist forever. Even in the very low (good!) tariff rates under the WTO, ownership rules and safety (plus "safety") regulations acted as protection systems. Now, the US is afar from being the only country to have done this, but in the US they have chosen another layer that most successful countries have abandoned: national champions and cartel.

The EU, for all its faults, is a far more competetive environment than the US and has been for decades. Air travel, telecoms, and banking are far more competetive than the US. The US favors cartel systems so that there are a small number of airlines, telecom providers, foor companies, etc. Strict competition rules make things like credit cards much cheaper (no "points" etc because there's no money to fund them). So all those products are much cheaper in the EU than in the US and more dynamic too.

These higher prices make the GDP look bigger and the stock market too: in the EU that extorted money is returned as a consumer surplus.

▲TMWNN 16 hours ago | parent [-]

>The EU, for all its faults, is a far more competetive environment than the US and has been for decades. Air travel, telecoms, and banking are far more competetive than the US.

You might argue this for airlines, given how Southwest has gone upmarket in the US while the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet haven't in Europe. But banking? No. The Big Four US banks have 50% of the market, while their Dutch, British, and Spanish equivalents (for example) have 70%.

As for telecom, the US just moved to three mobile carriers from four with 97% of the market, but that's hardly different from their Big Three or Four equivalents in European countries, all with ~90% of the market. Further, in yet another example of nature abhorring a vacuum, a) US cable carriers are seeing good growth in mobile as part of bundled subscriptions, and b) Starlink may soon offer a fourth national network.

As for prices, well, my $25 tax-inclusive Sprint/T-Mobile subscription for three unlimited mobile lines laughs at all the peons out there denied such wonders. But for everyone else, there is always the option of Mint or US Mobile or Visible for $25 monthly unlimited plans, all quite competitive against European MVNO counterparts, all offering coverage from Honolulu to Key West, Anchorage to El Paso.

>Strict competition rules make things like credit cards much cheaper (no "points" etc because there's no money to fund them).

Yes, I really hate earning 2-5% cashback on every purchase made with my personal and business cards.

>national champions and cartel

In what way are the Big Four US banks, or Big Three US carriers, "national champions" akin to the European nationalized days of yore, with the likes of Bull, British Telecom, etc.? And no, the US taking a 10% share of Intel is not the same thing as France assembling Groupe Bull, or Britain assembling ICL or BAe.

>These higher prices make the GDP look bigger and the stock market too: in the EU that extorted money is returned as a consumer surplus.

Ah yes, the days of yore, when (say) British Telecom and its fellow European equivalents were able to offer world-leading services at world-leading prices while returning a "consumer surplus" (whatever that is). Oh, wait.

PS - If you want to gripe about cartels, look north of the 49th. Canada's Big Five banks have 90% of the market, and Big Three carriers are so dominant—without offering niceties like $25 unlimited nationwide plans to all—that long ago they gained the "Robelus" nickname.

▲jjav 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> option of Mint or US Mobile

The only time in my life I've seen a subcription become cheaper was with one of my phones that is on US Mobile. The monthly bill went down from $6.95 to $5! That's for a phone for mostly SMS and some voice calls per month, no data.

> Yes, I really hate earning 2-5% cashback

5% seems overoptimistic.

The ceiling seems to be 2%

Anything above 2% has a lot of fine print attached to it. Either limited categories or limited cashback per month or something else.

If you know any card with unlimited cashback over 2% let us know, please.

▲GardenLetter27 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

So is Europe though. We even copied the US with the fixed fee on imports now plus an extra percentage fee coming in 2 years.

Meanwhile Chinese EVs are banned, and even Tesla FSD is banned in most of Europe.

▲ch_sm a day ago | parent | next [-]

Chinese EVs aren’t banned in the EU (to my knowledge), but have an import tax that brings their total price roughly to the level of western products. BYD is special amongst them, because they build cars in Hungary.

▲t0bia_s 20 hours ago | parent [-]

In Czechia businesses can get ~17000€ per EV, free vignettes for EV, cheaper price for charging if you get photovoltaic panels, also donated ~8000€. No wonder that sales goes up when our taxes sponsor EV manufacturing outside EU. And simultaneously automotive in EU dies.

▲jttnr a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm glad FSD isn't allowed in Germany. A camera-only system is a long way from what I'd consider safe. Just as a reminder:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQJL3htsDyQ

▲krzyk a day ago | parent | next [-]

Edge cases.

LIDAR wouldn't help in case of water/rain, quite the opposite. It does help for funny painting.

▲fuzzythinker 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Outdated fact? Recent years' lidar shouldn't have much issues w/ rain

▲GardenLetter27 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

This is a ridiculous edge case.

The real comparison is compared to most human drivers - distracted on their phones and smoking cigarettes, drunk driving or high on marijuana or laughing gas, etc.

▲marticode a day ago | parent [-]

This highlight the core issue of vision-only self driving: it falls apart when visibility is bad or confusing. Tesla FSD struggles with something as common as driving towards the sun at dawn/sunset.

▲eliaspro a day ago | parent [-]

Limit FSD to southbound roads, problem solved!

▲vikaveri a day ago | parent [-]

Probably northbound only. Sun at noon is low enough in northern Europe that it's not much different from sunset/dawn

▲tilsammans a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Completely untrue, Tesla FSD is approved for Finland, Netherlands, Lithuania, Estonia, Denmark, Belgium, Slovenia, Czechia, Croatia, Slovakia and Latvia. Chinese cars like BYD, Xpeng etc are everywhere too.

▲GardenLetter27 a day ago | parent | next [-]

But not in France, Germany, Sweden, Spain, Poland, Italy, Ireland, etc. - thus not in most of Europe.

▲krzyk a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Basically the smallest EU countries.

I agree that Chinese EV cars are all over Europe.

▲Gravityloss a day ago | parent | prev [-]

European car manufacturers are sleeping on FSD. Why would I buy a non-FSD car if there's not much price difference?

AFAIU only Ford and Tesla have it currently?

▲throwa356262 a day ago | parent | next [-]

Mercedes has self driving that unlike Tesla has gone through proper safety testing and can be used at higher autonomy levels.

Camera-only systems like the Tesla cannot handle some weather conditions and should not allowed on European roads.

▲origini a day ago | parent | prev [-]

There is no Tesla Full self driving in europe.

BMW can self drive on autobahns in europe.

▲Gravityloss a day ago | parent [-]

Can one buy a Mercedes or BMW today in Finland that can drive hands-off? Not meant as a rhetorical question. I thought that it's not possible but I might be wrong, am not an expert.

▲origini a day ago | parent [-]

Tesla can be used in Finland supervised aka tesla needs to see that you look at the street. BMW and Mercedes can drive hands-off and eyes off on german autobahns.

So none of them can do it properly anywhere :D

▲throw-qqqqq a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Meanwhile Chinese EVs are banned

Maybe I misunderstand you, but I don’t think this is true. On the contrary: AFAIK there isn’t a single European country that does this.

Which countries are you thinking of?

▲GardenLetter27 a day ago | parent [-]

The main issue is the tariffs and certification - like there is a literal hard cap on the total number of imports. It is getting better now though as BYD has the factory in Hungary at least.

It's crazy that the EU criticise Trump for the ridiculous tariffs, but then do near the same thing themselves.

And unlike Trump, we cannot vote them out.

▲TMWNN a day ago | parent [-]

>The main issue is the tariffs and certification - like there is a literal hard cap on the total number of imports.

Tesla benefited <https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-01-19/tesla-vol...> from Canada cutting import duty on Chinese EVs, by grabbing most of the slots.

▲rsynnott a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Meanwhile Chinese EVs are banned

Are you actually in the EU? If so, are you blind? Chinese EVs self-evidently are not banned.

▲cromka a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Looking at your comments, which each and every one of is anti-EU and somewhat similar, I am almost convinced you are, in fact, a bot. And if you're not, then you have a clear agenda and given this very comment, just spread lies.

▲nkoren a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In my neighborhood in London, roughly half the cars I see are Chinese EVs.

▲martinald a day ago | parent | next [-]

UK doesn't have the same tariffs the EU applies though...

▲CalRobert a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Is Britain more relaxed than the EU around imports?

▲marcyb5st a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What? I see BYD electric cars everywhere in Switzerland/Italy where I usually hang around

▲svelle a day ago | parent | prev [-]

> Meanwhile Chinese EVs are banned

What? BYD, NIO and others are to be found everywhere in Germany. I literally see one parked on the other side of the street looking out of my window right now.

▲azernik a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's not even the first time for cars!

▲spiderfarmer a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What about the metric system, healthcare and food quality.

▲48585858 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Europe has effectively banned Chinese cars so we have to buy them rebadged as bmw for 3x the price

▲jurgenburgen a day ago | parent | next [-]

That tariff barely covers the exchange rate manipulation. I do think it’s kind of stupid, for goods that are not strategic we should take advantage of the cheap EV prices so we can move more quickly on the green reforms.

The lower tariff on hybrid cars is even dumber, why do we want more polluting cars?

▲pepperoni_pizza a day ago | parent [-]

Hybrid cars getting any benefits is dumb, I agree. But I would argue that automotive and just transportation in general are strategic sectors basically anywhere.

▲jurgenburgen 21 hours ago | parent [-]

I think it’s debatable, trucks and vans are important for logistics but the tariff doesn’t even apply to them. The whole thing is just to protect car industry profits.

▲origini a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No it hasn't and BYD has a factory in hungary now which solves the tarifs issue for BYD

▲tecleandor a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I can see Jaeco, Omoda, BYD, Leapmotor, Lynk, MG... cars all day in Spain.

▲ a day ago | parent | prev [-]
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▲jgalt212 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

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