AFAICT, This truck will not be able to pass either the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS) or the EPA/CARB emissions standards for high speed vehicles. The new Colorado rules for Kei vehicles does not remove those requirements because it relies on the existing exemptions available for 25+ year old vehicles.

IOW, it needs to keep the 25mph speed limiter to qualify as a low speed vehicle, even in Colorado.

▲ mike_d 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

EPA/CARB effectively sets a minimum size for trucks. Rather than having a small light truck that can do the job, you get a Ford F250 hauling a single bale of hay.

But rolling back or adding exemptions for small trucks is political suicide despite the clear environmental benefits.

▲ Grombobulous 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This isn’t really true. See: Ford Maverick.

CARB only nudges manufacturers, but the market’s own purchase preferences are doing the big push.

Perhaps the biggest nudge is that gasoline is undertaxed. Consumers will never see a reason to stop driving a 18-25mpg truck when gas being less than $5 a gallon is considered a “high” price. The gas tax hasn’t kept up with inflation.

I don’t love the ford F-150 for being a monster truck, but consider this: with the right configuration it sears 6 adults comfortably, plus having a bed for cargo. Families legitimately replace minivans and other family vehicles with it, plus it can tow and haul being the body on frame truck that it is.

▲ AngryData 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Gas is not undertaxed, weight is undertaxed. Road wear grows exponentially with weight. The biggest factor in road wear is how many loaded semi-trucks drive down it.

▲ bryanlarsen 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This vehicle gets 37mpg. For a vehicle with this footprint, CARB requires 63 mpg for the 2026 standard and 121 for the 2032 standard.

▲ mywittyname 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah, but actual MPG and CAFE MPG are very, very different numbers. Manufactures get a boat load of "credits" for selling hybrids, EVs, having engines that can burn ethanol, etc.

Also, it's Corporate Average Fuel Economy. Not Model Average Fuel Economy. So those 150k or so Mavericks have to offset the to the like 600k or so F-Series pickups being sold with 400+HP motors.

Ford has never paid a CAFE fine, despite selling predominantly gas guzzling pickups, SUVs, and having its only car being a sports car. This is because of the aforementioned credits they get for flex fuel support, etc.

▲ Grombobulous 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

CARB was basically nullified by the Trump administration, right?

Either way, if the Maverick gets 37MPG already, seems like it’s not that much of an ask to get it to 67mpg.

If Slate can make a $25,000 EV truck I don’t see why Ford can’t do the same.

	▲	throwaway2037 2 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		`> If Slate can make a $25,000 EV truck I don’t see why Ford can’t do the same.` I assume the answer is simple: Economics. The profit margin on a Slate truck is probably tiny. Ford can make much more in profits by selling bigger, more expensive trucks. With inflation running so hot in the US, I will be very surprised if they can keep their promise for a 25K USD base model truck, and maintain it for any significant period of time. I found the preorder agreement here: https://www.slate.auto/en/terms/preorder > 1. Preorder > By submitting your Preorder and paying the non-refundable deposit (the “Preorder Deposit”), you are securing a firm time slot for the production of a Truck. If you choose to place a Preorder prior to being assigned a delivery window, you will be assigned one when available. This Agreement does not constitute a purchase agreement for a Truck and you are not obligated to purchase a Truck. You will be required to enter into a separate Vehicle Purchase Agreement closer to the time of delivery in order to purchase a Truck and you will be able to select any accessories and configure your Truck at that time. The Vehicle Purchase Agreement will include the final price sheet for your configured Truck and may be with a separate Slate entity. Your Preorder becomes effective upon your acceptance of these Terms and your payment of the Preorder Deposit. Man, what a word salad! In short, there is no guarantee about the final base price. I created a poll for this topic here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50448128
	▲	Marsymars 36 minutes ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		> If Slate can make a $25,000 EV truck I don’t see why Ford can’t do the same. The Ford Fathom isn't that far off.

▲ toast0 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The Ford Maverick is wider and longer than a 1994 s-10 based on a random site [1].

All while the Maverick has a bed that probably can't properly move a couch.

You probably can't really fit a couch on the back of a kei truck either, but it's ok because they're cute.

[1] https://www.vehiclesizes.com/compare/3771-7714/ford-maverick...

▲ Grombobulous 4 hours ago | parent [-]

The Maverick seats 4-5 adults comfortably. I think we can be a little more accepting that consumer tastes have changed.

The appeal of a Maverick is that it’s a normal family vehicle that drives just like a passenger car while having a bed where you can put dirty stuff.

▲ toast0 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Consumer tastes may have changed... but we don't know for sure because nobody builds the trucks we want.

I know I see a lot of light duty fleets that switched from Rangers to F-150s only because the Ranger was discontinued and there were no small trucks to switch to.

These are businesses that need a 6 foot bed for gear, but don't need to have more than one seat (but two is fine), and would like fuel efficiency and dollar efficiency.

Some of them went to work vans, but nobody is selling those right now either.

I used to have a 2007 Ranger I bought new, but sold it due to parking restrictions and no specific current need for a truck. When I needed a light truck again (~ 2019), there was nothing to buy new. I don't want a real truck cause they're too big, I don't want more than one row of seats. I ended up with a 2003 S-10, cause that's what was available in the marketplace for me.

▲ mywittyname 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> but we don't know for sure because nobody builds the trucks we want.

Americans collectively purchase over 1 million trucks a year. They come in all kinds of different form factors from work truck with unpainted bumpers to 700HP supercharged dune runners, there are massive couches on wheels with interior made from saddle leather, to trucks pushing 1000ft-lbs to torque. There are EVs trucks with 400 miles of range and crossovers with the hatch turned into a tiny bed. There's even a Jeep Wranger with a bed (Gladiator).

If there's a significant market for a truck niche, it's covered. Trucks are far and away the most diverse segment of the US auto market. If manufactures killed of the truck you want, it's because they apparently can't find 1,999 other people to buy that trim.

▲ toast0 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> Americans collectively purchase over 1 million trucks a year. They come in all kinds of different form factors. If there's a significant market for a truck niche, it's covered.

They do not come in all form factors. Compact trucks are missing.

> If manufactures killed of the truck you want, it's because they apparently can't find 1,999 other people to buy that trim.

If that were true, Ford wouldn't have stopped selling the Ranger in the US. They stopped making them in December 2011.

Yearly sales [2] were

   2005  120,958
   2006   92,420
   2007   72,711
   2008   65,872
   2009   55,600
   2010   55,364
   2011   70,832
   2012   23,848

Why stop when you're selling 50k+ a year, and sales increase to 70k when you let people know you're cancelling it.

Canadian sales were about 20k a year, with 2011 and 2012 combining to hit 20k-ish. [2]

If it's not sales, and it's not competition (because all of the competition stopped servicing this market, too), it's because CAFE forced us to buy bigger or older trucks.

[1] https://carfigures.com/us-market-brand/ford/ranger#year-sale...

[2] https://carfigures.com/canada-market-brand/ford/ranger#year-...

	▲	Marsymars 32 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		> They do not come in all form factors. Compact trucks are missing. The Maverick is a compact truck. It's slightly shorter and somewhat wider than the Ranger. It's specifically only the 2-seat compact truck form factor that's missing.

▲ bryanlarsen 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The fact that this tiny engine couldn't meet emissions standards is bonkers. But that's the law as written right now.

	▲	johnwalkr 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Of course it could. But the whole reason for Kei cars being cheap in Japan is that they are light, power-limited and exempt from some emissions and safety regulations. The emissions part made sense ages ago in Japan when emissions was more closely correlated to engine size. Now they are too popular domestically and as an export item for the regulations to be changed easily. It’s a matter of time though.

▲ readthenotes1 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Where I live the Ford F-250 is not used for falling a single bit of anything other than air. They are in pristine shape and look like they've never been outside the city limits nor off City roads

	▲	ceejayoz 5 hours ago \| parent [-]
		My favorite example of this is the big lifted pickups innnnnnnching over slightly bumpy railroad crossings.

▲ __alexander 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Good point.