Remix.run Logo
▲ johnnyo 2 hours ago

If this is govt-owned data, shouldn’t it be available with a FOIA request or similar?

Can someone with expertise in govt data rights explain? Do any other US govt agencies sell data to the private sector?

▲Tangurena2 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Congress keeps passing laws to make USPS appear to be as "unprofitable" as possible. Such as pre-funding pensions & healthcare for people who have not been born yet [0]. I suspect the goal is to sell off a "money losing" USPS to some campaign contributor for $1 so that person can reap the $60B in pension funds.

One of the features I would try to add at employers was address correction. The addresses API used to be free (became a paid service in August 2026). If you've ever seen a popup at on an order/address form which says something like "you entered X, but the Post Office recommends Y" (or similar words), then you've seen the results of the address API [1].

Notes:

0 - 2022 changes to the 2006 law let them stop prefunding 75 years ahead of time.

https://www.uspsoig.gov/focus-areas/did-you-know/what-did-po...

> To qualify for regular retirement, employees must have at least 30 years of service and be 55 or older; or 20 years of service and be age 60 or older; or 5 years of service and be age 62 or older.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_Accountability_and_Enha...

1 - https://developers.usps.com/addressesv3

▲ryandrake an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Why is the government expected to be profitable? Is the military profitable? What about the national park service? I don't want government to be profitable--I want them to provide the service they are asked to provide in a way that his highly available and accessible.

▲kube-system an hour ago | parent | next [-]

It is ideological. Many point to private courier services as an 'obvious' point of comparison.

However, what I believe many are missing is that having a physical mail network that is accountable to the public good and our government is an advantage for many important situations that should not be dependent on the free market.

▲10111001 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> It is ideological. Many point to private courier services as an 'obvious' point of comparison.

On a couple different levels:

1. Some people (like libertarians) have an ideological opposition to government-provided services, and believe all or nearly all services provided by the government should be abolished and replaced with the "free market."

2. An ideological belief that private business is "efficient" and government is "bloated and wasteful" by definition.

3. An lazy belief that "the government should be run like a business," therefore the tools you use to evaluate a business (like profitability), should be used to evaluate government.

4. etc.

I think those are distinct beliefs, but they kind of feed into each other and support each other. Like if you believe government services are wasteful and business efficient, it would follow you would improve things by abolishing the government services.

▲kube-system 39 minutes ago | parent [-]

There are good libertarian arguments for a government run post office -- particularly in how it support free speech, the right to petition, free and fair elections, how it uniquely protects 4th amendment rights, etc.

▲Tangurena2 40 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes, very ideological. Some people want government to run like a business. Is your state/county/city not profitable enough? Then your state gets fired or downsized. Or maybe sold to the highest bidder.

In any event, the US Constitution requires a post office.

US Constitution, Article 1, Section 8

> The Congress shall have Power ...

> To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution-transcri...

▲masfuerte 7 minutes ago | parent [-]

Not that I think they should, but Congress could legally vote to abolish the postal service. They had the power to create it but they weren't required to.

▲nukanse an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A profit is the net value given to society minus the cost taken from society. Example: you take floor worth 1 from society, make a cake and sell it for 3. You gave 3 and took 1, enriching society by 2.

It means that you reduced the poverty of other people by 2. Somebody who could not afford a cake before, now can.

This is why making a profit is philanthropy, and for the same reason, losing money impoverishes the rest of society. If you lose money, you impoverished other people. If the state loses money, it impoverishes society, but is the poorest people who gets the worst of it.

▲tavavex 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I'm sorry, what? You didn't give society 3, you gave it 1+the value of your added work, and pocketed the difference between that amount and 3. And before anyone jumps in to claim that people paying 3 means the item is actually objectively worth 3 - no, government services are often essential and irreplaceable, people are often willing to pay anything for them. This is like saying I somehow added 10000 of value to society by refusing to extinguish someone's burning house for anything less than that amount, despite the actual work costing me far less to perform. As for any non-essential services, that difference is covered by advertising and all sorts of manipulative tricks humanity has come up to force people to make irrational choices, especially over the last century.

Profit-seeking for essential services is the epitome of selfishness that can only be justified through twisted ideologies. When applied to governments that are supposed to take the least and give the most, it is pure evil, just skimming off goods and services someone desperately needs to put that in your pocket.

▲zer0x4d 44 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

I like this analogy. The government should of course aim to make as much money as possible

▲zer0x4d an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Umm of course the government should be profitable. How do you expect it to work if it doesn't make money? Government makes money from oil, trade, taxes, fines, etc. I don't think the government being profitable has been an issue at any point.

▲jelloroll42 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

USPS is being slowly killed at the behest of the real estate lobby who are licking their lips at the Post Office's multi-billion dollar real estate portfolio. There's no reason USPS needs to be profitable as a government service as a sibling comment has already pointed out.

▲ranger_danger an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In my experience that API is also wildly inaccurate and is responsible for many misdelivered/undelivered packages because it will return random (well, previously used by someone else), different building/suite/apartment numbers for the same address line that already contains the correct one.

▲red-iron-pine an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> I suspect the goal is to sell off a "money losing" USPS to some campaign contributor for $1 so that person can reap the $60B in pension funds.

it's not that complicated: FedEx and UPS and several other related business types have been trying to kill it for years

the "privatize everything" crowd that would charge you for air if they could.

▲anamexis 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Apparently it is because the USPS has a special carve out from congress exempting it from disclosure of "information of a commercial nature", subsection (c) here: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/39/410

▲ks2048 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Probably because of the silly idea of quasi-privatization,

> But, beginning in the 1970s, the Postal Service largely stopped receiving any taxpayer money for ongoing operations. Postal operations are instead funded by sales to you, the postal customer. Now it depends almost entirely on sales to keep the lights on.

https://www.uspsoig.gov/focus-areas/did-you-know/postal-serv...

▲JoshTriplett 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Postal operations are instead funded by sales to you, the postal customer. Now it depends almost entirely on sales to keep the lights on.

If you ever wonder why you get so much postal spam, this is why. The USPS is mostly funded by advertising. They could, for instance, stop the practice of accepting "deliver this junk to every mailbox in this region"...but then they'd go bankrupt.

▲kulahan 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Bipartisan effort concentrated across many years to destroy one of the most useful services in the nation.

▲xp84 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah, it is definitely one of the most tortured organizations I know of. Congress as usual wants a ton of conflicting things:

1. Mandate universal delivery of letters regardless of distance or remoteness, even out in some wilderness region of Alaska, guarantee everyone the right to get a letter for the same stamp price as to deliver a letter from one office in the Chrysler Building to another one.

2. Have USPS not get taxpayer funds for anything

3. Impose arbitrary price controls on postage based on Congressional vibes

4. Have postal employees still be federal employees and qualify for cushy benefits and retirement (I assume this is there because their unions would strike if it was taken away)

5. Micromanage how that retirement plan is funded

6. Give USPS special privileges like the one being discussed... or like the basic monopoly on 'delivering non-urgent letters' that bars UPS from delivering mail into your mailbox.

If all the above sound extremely confused, that's because the USPS has been the object of political meddling for at least 5-6 decades, so it still shows the fingerprints of many ideologically-conflicting schemes and agendas all at once.

▲pwg an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> I assume this is there because their unions would strike

If postal employees are federal GS employees, they are not legally allowed to strike:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/5/7311

▲eks391 38 minutes ago | parent [-]

Exactly. Therefore "Have postal employees still be federal employees [...] because their unions would strike [...]" can be translated to "If we allow them to strike (by them not being federal employees), then they will strike".

▲jasonjayr 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Don't forget, pre-fund pension accounts for future 'yet-to-be-hired' employees.

▲ThinkingGuy an hour ago | parent [-]

Wasn't that requirement finally repealed recently?

▲xp84 an hour ago | parent [-]

Oh, wow. Apparently it was! https://www.uspsoig.gov/focus-areas/did-you-know/what-did-po...

▲ 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
▲mannyv an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Pretty much every state charges for some data and not others.

The USPS itself is a quasi-government corporation, so it probably functions under a different set of laws. I know that they will sell you a list of all the addresses in the US for a price. I've never thought about doing a FOIA request. You can try?

▲yipinwong 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

TIL: USPS makes money with its own budget while USPS get some funding for government programs like rebates.

So yeah, they can sell that data legally.

https://about.usps.com/who/profile/

> he Postal Service generally receives no tax dollars for operating expenses and relies on the sale of postage, products and services to fund its operations

▲ryandrake an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

This move roughly aligns with the administration's broader desire to take data generated by the government at taxpayer expense, and hand it over to his buddies to privatize and profit from it. See also weather data.