| ▲ | rustyhancock 2 days ago |
| Huge fan of bringing back older games and updating. But I think it's highly dubious to accept let alone solicit donations for copyrighted content. |
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| ▲ | alexjplant 2 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| If I were doing this type of re-implementation work I wouldn't even make it publicly available. I'd share it with my friends and keep a lid on it otherwise. Large game publishers seem to have real trouble distinguishing organic IP remixes from outright day-one piracy that costs them revenue and I'd rather not get caught up in the legal dragnet. |
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| ▲ | rvz 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Huge fan of bringing back older games and updating. Just because this game is old, does not mean they (nfsu2 [dot] xyz) own the rights to redistributing it which is what they are doing. Both the copyright for this game and the company is still live. Even asking for donations is going to get them into trouble as well as inviting the rights holders to contact them directly. So I don't think this site will survive for long. EA's lawyers have access to insurmountable funds which make this cat-and-mouse game disadvantageous to projects like this who are even showing the intention of asking for some form of financial contribution of support (money through donations). |
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| ▲ | Forgeties79 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I think they should be far more worried about the music rights holders than EA. When I fired it up I was greeted to a menu playing The Doors & Snoop Dogg lol | |
| ▲ | blensor 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Interestingly they kinda already expect that due to their contact details > Help, bugs and questions: our Discord.
> Rights holders: legal (at) nfsu2.xyz. I wonder if the email just goes to /dev/null | | |
| ▲ | henry700 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | DMCA / Cease and Desist email triggers a workflow which takes down the website, sleeps for 1 day, creates a new shell company buys a new domain uploads the same content and posts it on hacker news |
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| ▲ | jimmyjazz14 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yeah I believe taking donations was the legal downfall of some otherwise legal emulators on the market. |
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| ▲ | flykespice 2 days ago | parent [-] | | It was, it's so stupid and morally illegal to ask donation for stuff you don't own | | |
| ▲ | johnnyanmac a day ago | parent | next [-] | | I don't know. You're not asking for donations to keep maintaining a product you don't own. You're asking for donations as someone who put their services to work. Consider a tricky grey area: you have a patreon for your youtube channel and expect most people to be donating so you can keep making videos (you get maybe, $50 a month). You also make random mods on the side. One of your mods blows up, and you get a bunch of attention. Which includes donators giving you hundreds thanking you for the mod. Are you now taking "blood money" because your tip jar for youtube content now has financial incentives to make more gaming mods? I personally treat the tip jar as such. As long as you're not saying "pay me this much and I'll make X mod", I'm donating to a person, not a potentially morally grey cause. Maybe the Nintendo lawyer disagree with me, but that feeling has always been mutual. | | |
| ▲ | Crabber a day ago | parent [-] | | What is the service here though, if it's not just "here's a way to play a copyrighted game without paying"? I'm sure this project took a lot of work and effort, but legally/morally speaking that's beside the point of where the value is and who should be charging money for it. Would this website still be popular if it was just an online emulator that was capable of playing NFSU2 in the browser, in theory, so long as you uploaded your own legal copy? I'm not sure so many people would be visiting it or posting about it, to me 100% of the value of this site is just being able to play a great game that other people made, for free. The actual emulator itself is almost irrelevant to the value, if you get what I'm saying. Would many people visit a movie piracy site if it didn't actually have any movies but just had a blank video player that was capable of playing movies, in theory, if you uploaded one you already owned? | | |
| ▲ | ndriscoll a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Given that the legally entitled publisher doesn't want to continue to publish it, and hasn't for many years, offering it for free does seem to be a value add? People can enjoy something they otherwise couldn't. That's value. At some point (and 22 years seems more than the proper amount to me), that legal entitlement also just becomes unreasonable even if they did still publish it. I don't see how there could be a moral issue here. | |
| ▲ | johnnyanmac a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | >who should be charging money for it. I don't see a tip jar as "charging money", though. Not unless the service is behind the paywall. There's thousands of people using this website and it's pretty safe to imagine 99+% did not even click through to the tip jar. >Would this website still be popular if it was just an online emulator that was capable of playing NFSU2 in the browser, in theory, so long as you uploaded your own legal copy? 1. Given the nature of the emulator crowd, that's not as unexpected an obstacle as you think. Someone running an emulator should be used to procuring a backup. 2. Why do the views/plays matter if there's no monetization? There's no ads that incentivizes web traffic. >Would many people visit a movie piracy site if it didn't actually have any movies but just had a blank video player that was capable of playing movies? So, a plex server? Or rather, the APIs used to track movie covers and metadata that Plex pulls from? Seems like the answer is "not as many as a piracy site, but still many"? But this seems far from my main argument at this point about tip jars. Yes, people have tip jars and may still want to err on the side of caution and make themselves as legally compliant as possi. Fanart, fanfiction, and remixes are technically a gray area with our current copyright system, but the powers that be determined this beneficial advertising (or just plain harmless and not worth fighting in court) and let it go. Clean room decompilations are the only aspect of "modding" that seems to have any particular legal protections, but still a particularly low one. |
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| ▲ | AlAjem a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | Emulators are legally protected and asking for donations is just fine, the fly in the ointment for emulation of modern consoles is that they require firmware and decryption keys extracted from real consoles to actually do their advertised function, the emulator might tell you that it is your responsibility to extract the required files from your own console to protect itself but just like game "backups" it's much easier to download the required files someone else has ripped and uploaded to the internet. The stupid part was paywalling the latest version of the emulator behind a Patreon subscription which opened them up to being taken down by Nintendo, although it was likely they would have been taken down anyway just because the Switch 2 was nearing launch and they didn't want Switch emulator developers to get started on the Switch 2. |
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| ▲ | m00dy 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Multiplayer works, great job! |
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| ▲ | pixelstack 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| how to spot fun police at parties |
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| ▲ | PorciiVorbesc 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| >But I think it's highly dubious to accept let alone solicit donations for copyrighted content. No honor amongst thieves. I miss the days when pirates did it for the love of the game. |
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| ▲ | hobofan 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I think the piracy scene has in many aspects always been romaticized to some degree. With movies more so than with games, the piracy scene and the organized/commercalized bootleg scene were never far apart. Few people sit in a cinema with a camcorder "for the love of the game" and risk criminal charges, while many people will do the same thing for a few hundred bucks. | | |
| ▲ | sigmoid10 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | The movie ripper scene in particular doesn't need any love for the game, because anyone with the balls to do so can walk into a cinema and set up a telesync. Breaking copyright protection on a game is something that required an enormous skillset that was unachievable for most people before AI. In particular stuff like Denuvo is a constant battle of wits with the DRM people. | | |
| ▲ | EmX_3000 2 days ago | parent [-] | | TS's are usually made by projectionists, you're talking about screeners which are inferior. | | |
| ▲ | ssl-3 2 days ago | parent [-] | | In that realm, the terms as I understand them: Cam: Some regular person at audience-level aims a camera at the screen, usually with poor results. Easy to detect when the person in the next row gets up to go to the bathroom, if nothing else. TS: "Telesync". Usually an inside job by a projectionist or similar, often with excellent audio (but sometimes not). Camera is usually very stable with an unoccluded view; these can be hard to detect if a viewer isn't paying particularly close attention. Screener: Once upon a time, people with influence in things like the Academy Awards were sent physical copies of films to watch and judge at home. These copies were called screeners. Not as often a thing these days (with limited-access online streaming being a largely-solved problem), but they could be both very high-quality and very early. Sometimes, they included things like a periodic scroller or crawler that informed unaffiliated viewers that they were not allowed to be watching the thing they were watching. Sometimes, they also had one-off watermarks that were intended to show the source of a leak[1]. In the realm of leaky films, screeners were/are usually the superior format by a wide margin. [1]: https://waxy.org/2014/01/ellen_degeneres_walter_mitty_screen... | | |
| ▲ | EmX_3000 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Thanks, I had it bass ackwards. I just know that the only one easy to set up was the cam, TS and screener are of course progressively better. |
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| ▲ | Grombobulous 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's rightfully romanticized when companies fail to make their products easily available for purchase and usable far into the future. Will EA sell me Need for Speed Underground 2? Nope! They won't even acknowledge it exists on their website: https://www.ea.com/games/need-for-speed Just look under the "Need for Speed Games" menu. It's not even there in the sense of "we're proud of our heritage, look at a history of our old games." I think this is what makes movie piracy a lot less romanticized. For the most part, Universal Studios is willing to sell me an old movie for a fair price. I bought the 4K remaster of Lawrence of Arabia for $5 on the Apple TV Store recently, and that's a very fair price. It's mostly the software and especially the game industry that is hostile to this idea. I think copyright law should be modified to have more consideration for the rights holder's commercial abandonment. I would change it to add these parameters: If a copyrighted work was sold to the general public at any point, and the rights-holder no longer sells that product in a way that a reasonable person would purchase and consume that work, or is no longer for sale in a manner reasonably consistent with its original form of sale (e.g., they used to sell Need for Speed Underground 2 as a one-time purchase but now it's only available as a subscription, or the price has been changed from $50 to $3,000), people are then free to copy and redistribute that work for non-commercial purposes, although they may collect donations for the purposes of covering distribution cost so long as they don't make those donations a prerequisite for the end consumer's access of the copyrighted work. The redistributor would also not be allowed to represent themselves as the rights-holder or do anything that would confuse people into thinking they were the original source of the work. | | |
| ▲ | frmersdog 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | If you transpose back to a similar time period, post-nascence, of the film industry, they were basically trashing irreplaceable film reels for kicks. | |
| ▲ | vel0city 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | > For the most part, Universal Studios is willing to sell me an old movie for a fair price So I can go to the store and buy any of these? No? Huh. Sounds like this is largely untrue for most films ever produced commercially. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Universal_Pictures_fil... | | |
| ▲ | boston_clone 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I’m not a lawyer or anything, but aren’t these all public domain? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain_in_the_United_St... | | |
| ▲ | vel0city 2 days ago | parent [-] | | They are under public domain. But they still could theoretically distribute them. Theoretically, pretty much anyone could, but most of this list is just essentially lost to time. They couldn't even if they wanted to for a lot of these. They put in a good bit of work to republish and remaster a select few pieces of work forever but the vast majority of stuff just sits and rots. The same is true for videogames. A small slice gets recycled and republished as some retro game pack or whatever. But most of it gets ignored. But sure, let's go to more modern examples. Are all of these easily acquired "new" these days? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Universal_Pictures_fil... | | |
| ▲ | boston_clone 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Agreed they could, and the singular probable reason they don't is "cost". I'm with you, though - I think archivists / pirates play a vital role in media preservation and there should be carve-outs for certain use-cases. There was a gal who recorded thousands of hours of TV on video cassette tapes, which ended up becoming incredibly important / valuable some decades later. https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/marion-stokes-televisi... |
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| ▲ | brink 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | CyberLeek with the GTA6 fiasco is a great example. They started with a mission "for the gamers" to preserve consumer rights and force Rockstar to publish physical copies of the game, and it ended with them streaming nudes of the main character to pump their meme-coin. |
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| ▲ | frmersdog 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I miss the days when you could earn enough for rent with a part-time job and support the piracy ecosystem in your off-time. | | |
| ▲ | johnnyanmac a day ago | parent [-] | | Yeah. We created a culture encouraging people to monetize any and every aspect of our lives. We can't foster that, actively make cost of living worse, and not expect people to to follow suit. Especially on an entrepreneur site like YCombinator. You want more people doing it for the love of the game? Make sure they don't need to count pennies to pay rent. |
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| ▲ | Forgeties79 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | When did that exist? The Napster era when when people just got free music from a central server and accidentally put viruses on their computer half the time? The 18th century on the seas when it was a lot more murder, actual theft, and worse? Piracy has never been about the culture or game preservation or whatever. It’s about getting free stuff for 99% of pirates. There are people across the spectrum with additional motivations, for instance maybe somebody was annoyed by the state of streaming and it drove them to piracy. But at the end of the day, the vast majority people are downloading the stuff they want because it’s 1) free and 2) available to them. I fully support piracy but I also don’t pretend it’s some high-minded philosophical reason. There are moments where that element comes into play for me, especially when it comes to losing media, but I’m not going to sit here and pretend that is the number one reason anyone opens up Pirate Bay or whatever came before. | | |
| ▲ | NooneAtAll5 2 days ago | parent [-] | | you're confusing pirate consumers and pirate providers | | |
| ▲ | Forgeties79 2 days ago | parent [-] | | You’re absolutely right. I was way too eager to jump on that | | |
| ▲ | davkan 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Also not sure if you’ve ever been part of a private tracker but there a much higher percentage of users have additional motivation to contribute. Some of that is because contributing provides additional benefits to consumption. But also it’s for the love of the game. The losses of oink and what.cd were a bit like the burning of the library of Alexandria. Those libraries were the cumulative effort of tens of thousands of people sharing and meticulously cataloging. Much closer to maintaining a library or an archive than something like TPB. There is no doubt there is music that is now lost to time which was once dutifully uploaded and then preserved by a seeder on those sites. I personally have uploaded content that is not available to purchase anywhere to their successor. | | |
| ▲ | Forgeties79 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I was (mistakenly) talking about what motivates people, not the benefits of piracy. The vast majority of people engaging in the practice are doing it to get free media. If someone isn’t even practicing basic 321 I don’t want to hear the word “preservation” or “archive” lol In case it wasn’t clear before I very much support piracy. What I don’t like is people making up high-minded reasons as window dressing. The percentage of people doing it for “legitimate” or otherwise “good” reasons is very, very small. On the other hand, I also don’t think online piracy inflicts enough harm for it to be necessary to make an excuse. As for people who make it possible, that’s another thing entirely and I agree! | | |
| ▲ | davkan 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Agreed! Although i will say i believe you are meaningfully contributing to preservation when you permaseed torrents, especially in private trackers. These are geographically distributed copies available for others to grab and contribute to keeping safe. Obviously not to the degree of long term professional archiving but I do think it is a form of preservation to a greater degree than an average home user doing 3-2-1. The greatest risk of loss comes from people not resharing all their content when the private trackers disappear. |
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| ▲ | NooneAtAll5 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | it's still love of the game tho? donations are a form of "thank you", completely voluntary | |
| ▲ | mag7269 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | EA: “You software pirates lack honor, you do it just to make a quick buck, just for money! We do it, for glory, for integrity, for respect!” Us, Pirates: “We each do it for what we lack most.” |
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| ▲ | honkostani 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | origini 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| As a capitalist, I agree. A company like EA, being known for protecting their critical assets, should not accept that someone is stealing their content from 22 years ago and then even asking for donations. we should write to EA legal team asap. /s "I think it might be quite risky for them to ask for donations, might get them into more trouble" |
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| ▲ | m00dy 2 days ago | parent [-] | | you can always use monero or (btc and then mixer) or (eth and then tornado cash) | | |
| ▲ | origini 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Yeah but that will not lead to spontanious $5 donation. And i bet, based on the project itself, that the person did not think it through at all. So he would need to buy the server anonomous and the domain too. | | |
| ▲ | m00dy 2 days ago | parent [-] | | yeah you're right, the financial system as a surveillance tool at its finest. |
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