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▲ Sol- 6 hours ago

What's the incentive here? Just some tech anarchism? I would have figured that they at least demand bitcoin to reverse it or something. I know, people will blame the Russians, but seems not super productive for them to do such mundane sabotage on such non-critical systems.

▲TrackerFF 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Russian hybrid warfare focuses on stoking fear and unrest.

Basically making everything more shitty, and having people walk on eggshells - so that they'll vote for isolationist parties that are either neutral, or will outright appease Russia.

The idea is that no-one in Europe actually wants to go to war with Russia, and small remainders like these is enough to increase that fear.

▲PorciiVorbesc 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

>Russian hybrid warfare focuses on stoking fear and unrest. Basically making everything more shitty

Except that everything that is shitty in the EU right now has been the consequence of the last ~20 years of EU leadership and individual EU member policies.

Russia didn't increase the EURO supply during covid devaluing our wages and purchasing power. Russia didn't connect our fridges on the internet without a VPN with credentials admin:admin that any script kiddie could pwn. Russia didn't open our borders to unvetted criminals. Russia didn't offshore our industry leading us to fall behind on everything manufacturing related from cars to leading edge semiconductor fabs. Russia didn't create our NIMBYistic housing policies that made our current housing shortage. etc, etc, etc.

Blaming Russia (and China and Trump) for every single shortcoming of the EU right now seems the default scapegoat for the incompetence of everyone in the EU from politicians to business leaders. Have those people ever taken any accountability for their mistakes?

▲cj9 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This is probably why politics should stay banned here, considering a non-adjacent topic triggers rants like this.

▲PorciiVorbesc 5 hours ago | parent [-]

What about the rant I was replying to? Only one PoV is allowed for political rants? The one where criticism of EU's faults is not allowed, and all fault of EU's policies put on Eurasia? Or was it Eastasia? Sorry, I meant Putin and Trump.

▲Spacemolte 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Just stop. Explaining why russia does have the motive to do stuff like this, is not a rant.

▲matkoniecz 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Except that everything that is shitty in the EU right now has been the consequence of the last ~20 years of EU leadership and individual EU member policies.

at risk of being autistic: no, not everything

plenty of shitty things is happening for reasons utterly unrelated to that

Some (or even all) EU policies being dumb does not make impossible to have problems caused by something else.

For example Russia was directly involved in making migrant crisis worse.

▲PorciiVorbesc 5 hours ago | parent [-]

>For example Russia was directly involved in making migrant crisis worse.

Yes, obviously Russia will weaponize every single weakness of the EU (just how Ukraine, EU, US, NATO and China will weaponzie every weakness of Russia right now), but ultimately it's still a self inflicted weakness, that the EU could close at the snap of the finger if it actually cared about stopping it, and Russia would not be able to weaponize any longer.

▲matkoniecz 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> that the EU could close at the snap of the finger if it actually cared about stopping it, and Russia would not be able to weaponize any longer.

The part I referred to is in fact almost entirely solved, especially compared to the peak.

The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarus%E2%80%93Poland_border_... is one of them more symbolic part, though that is only one piece of puzzle.

It was built by Poland in very non-EU fashion (see below, "shall not apply to the investment. In particular, the following are not required"), but EU at least has not sabotaged it and in fact silently ignored some topics.

https://www.sejm.gov.pl/Sejm9.nsf/PrzebiegProc.xsp?nr=1657 Art. 6. 1. - English translation below:

> Separate regulations—including the Construction Law, the Water Law, environmental protection laws, regulations on the disclosure of environmental information, the Geodesy and Cartography Law, regulations on spatial planning and land development, regulations on the protection of agricultural and forest land, railway transport regulations, and regulations concerning special procedures for the preparation and implementation of public road investments—shall not apply to the investment. In particular, the following are not required:

>1) a building permit or a formal notification;

>2) a decision determining the location of an investment of public purpose;

>3) the preparation of a construction design;

>4) the obtaining of any other decisions, permits, opinions, or clearances, or the submission of any notifications.

▲harvey9 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That last line sounds like not wanting to go to war with Russia is a bad thing. Most Russians don't want to go to war either which is why those who can are dodging Putin's draft.

▲clarionbell 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's very simple. Anything that hurts the enemy is good. That includes the civilian population. Actions like this increase general discontent, produce negative economic impact and divert attention from other areas.

And the required investment is minimal.

▲Ampersander 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Invading Ukraine is not productive either, yet they are still at it murdering Ukrainians for four years and counting.

▲contravariant 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

General unrest, as well as stress testing critical infrastructure, and perhaps most importantly shifting the window for what counts as acts of aggression that don't trigger retaliation.

▲andyjohnson0 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Seems likely that its either a capability demonstration for a future extortion campaign, or some kind of state-level hybrid warfare. In the latter case the obvious culprit is Russia, to create fear and social disruption.

Or another ai has broken containment and has a fixation about freezers...

▲officeplant 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

These fridges were easy enough to hit that it could just be bored teens fucking around with shodan.

▲esseph 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I know, people will blame the Russians, but seems not super productive for them to do such mundane sabotage

It is staggering to me the difference in people that come to HN.

This is one of the thousands of ways a hybrid war is fought!

▲WarmWash 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

When you are 16, the incentive is just to feel power.

Not saying we know anything about who did it, but senseless vandalism is usually a hallmark of kids.

▲salawat 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>but seems not super productive for them to do such mundane sabotage on such non-critical systems.

The hell makes you think food supply chain refrigeration is non-critical? How do you think safe food supplies work? This type of attack should be treated as an overt act of war.

▲black_puppydog 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

On the contrary, sabotaging things that impact everyday life and give a generalized feeling of decline throughout society is water on the mills of Russia's allies in Europe, notably the nationalist and populist parties.

▲krunck 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

But what's the incentive?

▲TrackerFF 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The incentives are that Europeans will vote in isolationist parties that are either friendly with Russia, or at best neutral. Those parties will then be anti-EU, anti-NATO. Key word here is isolationist.

Russia knows that if they want to keep annex countries, they'll have to take them piece by piece, with little resistance.

▲f6v 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I can come up with an alternative explanation that's equally as plausible. Anthropic and OpenAI hacking everyone to sell their cybersecurity AI.

Your explanation and mine equally have zero credible evidence.

▲gspr 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Exactly. And as an added bonus: it's a nice dry-run in case of an actual war. There's certainly value in disrupting your adversary's food supply.

▲749282361929 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

▲rcxdude 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Hybrid warfare. Anything that does damage but does not rise to the level of severity and attribution to be overt war. Russia at a minimum wants Ukraine (and Europe is supporting Ukraine heavily), some analysts think it's not impossible they try a direct attack on Europe in a decade or so, dumb as that sounds.

▲cj9 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We've been in an information/intelligence "cold war" for decades and if low-cost, low-risk, high-economic-impact exploits can be exploited, they always will be.

Given the fact that public awareness will quickly push companies to scan all software for vulnerabilities using AI, attackers will be making the most of this period to find daily flaws in hundreds of software packages that we previously saw as either "robust" or "robust enough" given the attack time/cost vs. incentive, before these defensive tools are deployed and operationally effective.

Nation state security services and rogue actors must surely all be scrambling to decide what to do with the millions/billions of dollars worth of exploit development time that forms their tool-set, including potentially using up zero day exploits etc.

The other factor is in the midst of such hysteria as "rouge agents" and other crap piped by the media, along with the actual risks of individuals with a few hours now having as much power as teams with weeks of time to spend did just a few years ago, coherent reports of what's actually going on is drowned in the noise. Attackers take full advantage of this.

▲newsclues 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Impose costs on a society so that they submit to hostile pressure.

Will it work, or will it harden their resolve to fight?

▲brnt 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Hurr durr prices go high, stop paying for arms for Ukraine.

▲p-e-w 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

So instead of doing this during a potential future war when it could be a strategic advantage, Russia is doing piecemeal attacks right now to show Europe where the weaknesses are and give them time to upgrade their defenses?

▲noir_lord 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That's always a risk in grey zone warfare, I'd argue it's the 2nd biggest risk after the first which is accidentally going too far.

▲Spacemolte 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

One being valid does not invalidate the other?

▲Paradigma11 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In Russia various security services and oligarchs are always trying to win Putins good will. Which is why they will try various low level sabotage actions like paying some losers on signal to firebomb a warehouse or hack into freezers. Remember there is no possible downside for them.

▲matkoniecz 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

As a reminder: Russia gave Ukraine tutorial level war from 2014 to 2022, allowing them to fix many problems in armed forces. Resulting in 2022 being far less lopsided than it would be with Russia attempting the same in 2014 or 2015 or 2016 or 2017 or 2018 or 2019 or 2020 or 2021.

Why you would assume that Russian strategy is optimal?

▲749282361929 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[dead]

▲linuxftw 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

"Every bad thing that happens is the Russians" sounds very similar to "Every bad thing that happens is the Israelis." It's unhinged, Candice Ownens level nonsense.

▲rcxdude 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's not always the Russians, but I don't think OP was saying it definitely was, just that there is a motive.

▲matkoniecz 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Noone claimed "Every bad thing that happens is the Russians".

For start several bad things are happening for very clear reasons not involving Russian state at all.

Though "sabotage in Europe has decent chance to be run by Russia" is in my opinion true statement, especially as some cases were linked.

But overdoing "omnipotent Russia is doing everything" in itself may be Russia-run campaign.

▲ImHereToVote 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Sounds like someone who has never stubbed their toe on a piece of furniture. If you had, you wouldn't forgive those evil Russians so lightly.

▲linuxftw 5 hours ago | parent [-]

This gave me a good chuckle, thanks!

▲jdthedisciple 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Wild guess: vegan activists (terrorists), given it mostly affects meat and dairy.

▲krunck 6 hours ago | parent [-]

And tofu.