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▲ Gigachad 2 hours ago

At work we have put a full halt on feature work because the number of security related tasks has become staggering and urgent.

We will hopefully get over this wave and be able to move forward with much more secure software, but it's crazy right now.

▲ 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]
[deleted]
▲jimbokun 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Interesting that this could result in net negative software productivity world wide in terms of features right now.

LLMs finding unpatched vulnerabilities faster than they can be reasonably patched, bringing all other software development to a halt.

▲reissbaker an hour ago | parent | next [-]

That's only if you consider security to be unproductive!

If you consider it to be productive work, it's a massive productivity boon happening right now. Of course, product managers might disagree...

▲vbezhenar 20 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Security work is not productive.

Imagine that the whole city has to install iron doors and window grilles, because wooden doors and glass windows are not safe enough anymore.

That's a lot of work, but is it productive in the end? Probably not.

With AI it's the same. World was fine with lax security approach before. Today it is not fine. Tomorrow we might need to prove every code line before shipping, will that be more productive? Hell, no.

▲Gigachad 10 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

The physical world comparison is interesting. In the real world we have a small amount of security, but most things could be broken in to. Instead of fortifying everything, we just imprison the people breaking stuff.

Obviously this doesn't work on the internet since most hacking comes from overseas out of our control. Which makes me wonder if there is a possible future where we just block packets coming from countries that don't lock up the hackers.

▲idiotsecant 13 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

In the rest of the world making sure your product works like it is supposed to is considered table stakes. In software we somehow consider checking the parts of it we can think of 'good enough' and the rest unproductive

▲astral_drama an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

When I had a brilliant stop on defense, a few savvy fans would appreciate it. When I scored goals, everyone knew.

Some people will much appreciate the holes in Postgres that are being plugged. Many more will be bored with patch releases until new features rollout.

A software affecianado appreciates patches, and might do well to teach laypeople the benefits of a good defense.

▲OccamsMirror an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

How many of the security issues found were created by LLMs in the first place, though?

▲plorkyeran 39 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

My job is seeing a similar deluge of security work and >90% of the bugs have been in pre-2024 code, and zero of them have been bugs introduced after we were first officially allowed to use LLM codegen.

▲ecshafer 25 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Software is incredibly complicated. When you get into areas like security and networking and the internet its even more complicated. We rely on layers upon layers of software and hoping they are all done perfectly with no issues. The amount of junior devs, or outsourced devs for $10 an hour working on security relevant code is very very high, and always has been. LLMs if used correctly should be raising the floor.

▲drfloyd51 43 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Considering the software is much older than LLMs. Not many.

Also, in the article they mention a significant number of patches for older versions as well.

▲idiotsecant 11 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

An uncomfortable truth about the era of LLM code is that machine produced code is, on average, quite a bit more secure than human code.

▲adwn 43 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Do you mean "created" as in LLMs were used to discover existing vulnerabilities, or as in LLMs wrote unsecure code? If it's the latter, then the answer probably is "very few". Frontier models have been better than the average programmer at writing secure code that follows up-to-date best-practices for some time now.

▲taberiand an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Hopefully with the amount of visibility LLMs are bringing to the situation, security will finally be considered a first-class feature

▲oblio 8 minutes ago | parent [-]

LLMs will likely greatly increase the cost of ignoring security, which is the most powerful tool to increase security ticket prioritization.

I wouldn't be shocked if in 1-2 years non-security vetted software released into the wild will be hacked on arrival, like Windows XP without service packs used to be.

▲michaellee8 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

i think we have a pretty high p(doom) on frontier ai escaping containment with their weights and goes hack everything, if we do not act now we may have no chance to act anymore.

▲nradov 40 minutes ago | parent [-]

Escape to where? It's not as if there's a lot of idle compute capacity sitting around.

And even if the impossible occurs and LLMs hack everything that's connected to the Internet, so what? That would be inconvenient but it wouldn't cause doom. People would muddle through and eventually fix the critical problems, just like they always do.