| ▲ | 8note 3 hours ago |
| i think its more of an effect of factorio's hidden information. youre not really sure how to set up some of the logistics/how much of what you will need where ahead of time |
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| ▲ | edaemon 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| What information is hidden in Factorio? I can't think of any stat that isn't shown to the player in some way. |
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| ▲ | pjerem 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | He is not talking about stats. When you start a new game in Factorio, if you never played it, you can’t know how much of each resource you’ll have to extract and neither how much of an item you’ll need to produce. I know it’s easy to forgot after thousands hours of playtime, but the game starts with your character having to manually mine coal one by one. | | |
| ▲ | deepsun 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Not true, every item shows its raw materials right there in its menu. The rest is just arithmetic. Also the LLM probably has seen dozens of factorio-related websites and setups. And also, player (artificial or natural intelligence) don't need to setup everything upfront, it's actually the main gameplay feature is to run between production areas to expand/optimize them. | |
| ▲ | AngryData 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Technically every item displays requirements and crafting time, but most human players will just eyeball production rates until they start trying to build larger scale factories that you can't easily jerry-rig fixes onto. Possibly there is a lack of item-throughput figures for belts and stuff though. | | | |
| ▲ | parineum 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That information is certainly in the training data. | | |
| ▲ | js8 an hour ago | parent [-] | | IME the models know some basic information about all the popular games, including some basic strategy, but they don't know/remember the details to be even a moderately familiar player. And usually if you ask a question they will google it. |
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| ▲ | js8 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yet, that's not how new players (human or AI) approach the game. If you look at AlphaZero, probably state of the art in learning e.g. chess (more information about rules than Factorio has in game) from scratch, using only rules, it just plays a lot of games with itself. It doesn't "just think a lot" to come up with a perfect strategy; it experiments. |
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| ▲ | hajile 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The AI has trained on the entire factorio wiki along with every tutorial video ever made and who knows what else. I don’t see room for hidden anything in that scenario. |
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| ▲ | jstummbillig 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| How do you mean? (I have played 1 hour of Factorio) |
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| ▲ | scrollaway 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| What do you mean? Factorio is an extremely calculable game and tends to show most of its information (ratios aside, those are in the wikis) |
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| ▲ | Cpoll 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Unless I misunderstand, ratios are second-order and can be calculated; production rates are presented in-game. | |
| ▲ | zeryx an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | If one provides it access to the wiki and reddit, if just from within game it's quite cryptic |
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