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▲ jstummbillig 3 hours ago

Man, if only there existed some central societal body with the authority to essentially freeze accounts and unwind a transaction like this. What a security feature that would be.

▲Lichtso 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The reversibility of transactions is often brought up but I don't think that is the main differentiator, or any at all really.

First, both cryptocurrencies and traditional finance systems have chosen to and have chosen not to reverse or freeze criminal transactions in the past. Decentralized blockchains have chosen to do so at least once [0]. The traditional finance system has chosen not to many times and even large sums [1] [2]. It really comes down to how much is stolen and how much influence the victim(s) have.

No, instead I think the main difference is the speed of transactions. Some blockchains operate within milliseconds while bank transactions take days. Even instant transfers are actually settled on a way longer cadence in reality.

That means attackers can do a fast sweep on blockchains, which is not possible with bank transactions because everything happens in slow motion and humans have way more time to react and step in.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_DAO [1]: https://www.turkiyetoday.com/turkiye/german-bank-e100m-disap... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Bank_robbery

▲rlpb 4 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I imagine it's possible to design a blockchain where transactions are 1) artificially delayed; and 2) can be blocked by anyone who has the key.

For example, take Bitcoin, except that each transaction must be posted twice to be considered to have modified the ledger between 7 and 14 days apart as measured by the number of intermediate blocks as a function of the difficulty requirement. If a "blocking" transaction makes it to the blockchain in between, then the transaction is deemed to have been cancelled. A "blocking" transaction must merely demonstrate ownership of one of the transaction inputs.

If you hold large funds, you could keep a remote monitoring system somewhere that is empowered to block your own transactions.

The blockchain design could be enhanced so that a blocking transaction proves ownership of the original inputs but cannot sign a transaction itself.

Failure mode: someone trying to legitimately block a transaction could find themselves unable to get their blocking transaction mined. But in practice they'd just up the transaction fee, and game theory should take care of it.

This was just a thought experiment. A point that comes to mind is that given this is possible, what you describe isn't an inherent property of cryptocurrency, so if there's a benefit to having this property then it could be done.

▲dreambuffer 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The main reason it is a differentiator is that centralised money understands that its purpose is to be a system of social credit, so reversibility of transactions is just an acknowledgement that there is enough evidence to prove that this particular individual owns this particular sum, so it should go back to them. It is actually a much better and more honest system than the blockchain, because it doesn't treat money like a tangible resource in and of itself that can be "lost" which would be a much older and dumber way of doing things.

▲lxgr 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It’s not always a choice. If value has been transferred onwards (ultimately in the form of e.g. cash withdrawn or something equally hard to trace, like physical goods handed over to a buyer), simply “undoing all transactions in a database” isn’t without victims either.

Whether undoing transactions or not is an option strongly depends on how fast value is allowed to move. Sometimes being slow is a feature as much as it is a bug.

▲Lichtso an hour ago | parent [-]

> Whether undoing transactions or not is an option strongly depends on how fast value is allowed to move. Sometimes being slow is a feature as much as it is a bug.

Exactly, that is my point. It is less about reversibility and more so about speed. Being slow can be an advantage (for security).

▲altcognito 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

what if the promotion of said non-fiat systems was done primarily by those looking to subvert that system? NK, Russia? What if it was further supported primarily by people to give great liquidity to illegal activity.

Something tells me that politicians that visit said locations on the 4th of July and their buddies business "leaders" looking to destablize the system are just not on the up and up. May even be corrupt.

▲ 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
▲Muromec 44 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I heard escrow keys are supposed to solve this. Can't we deposit escrow keys to a legacy bank running cobol in mainframes and let it do its kyc/aml sanctions check and anti fraud on all transactions? That should solve it

▲timcobb an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

On the other threads it was noted that some of it had been frozen via USDT contracts

▲bravoetch 24 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Except that banks often don't unwind or freeze transactions. I've seen cases of both criminal conduct, and human error, leading to millions in lost funds. And banks didn't reverse or freeze anything. Yes it would be a security feature, but it's not used the way you assume.

▲maerF0x0 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

a 51% agreement could fork/reverse this.

▲paulpauper 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah I know you are referring to the fiat-based financial system. Keep in mind, wire transfers generally cannot be reversed. There have been notable instances where money is lost/stolen this way, and no way to get it back.

▲Shank 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Wire payments are definitely reversible, but you might need to involve the courts, and international wires are more complex [0]. Most notably, 900 million in accidental payments made by Citi were eventually fully reversed by appeals courts.

> A full recounting of it is outside the scope of this anecdote, but it rhymes with “If you and the United States federal government disagree whether a transaction is final, you are wrong.”

[0]: https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/no-payments-are-final...

▲pllbnk 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, they can.

If it's a significantly large sum, it may look like this:

Step 1: The CEO of the debtor bank calls the CEO of the creditor bank and asks to return the money.

Step 2 (only needed if there is disagreement): Lawyers of the debtor bank send a ton of legal papers to the creditor bank and figure it out.

But it's just one of nearly infinite number of scenarios.

▲AlotOfReading an hour ago | parent [-]

And if the creditor bank happens to be in Russia, Iran, the DRPK, or any number of other hostile financial systems, the debtor bank will likely find things practically impossible to unwind regardless.

Sometimes they get lucky though and the government passes a law allowing them to seize equivalent assets a few decades down the road.

▲YesThatTom2 12 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

That proves the value of a well-regulated financial system.

▲pllbnk an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Making transfers to those countries is almost impossible from Western banks. It would require sophisticated multi-bank international transfers to do that, which take a long time and are fairly easy to stop.

▲lokar 40 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

They are already excluded from the financial system.

▲inknight 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

6 billion in fiat is too large a figure to be irreversible. Do you have any examples?

▲sidewndr46 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

https://www.al.com/news/2026/10/mobiles-147-million-fraud-lo...

▲manquer 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A similar incident would be the 1Billion robbery of the Bangladesh central bank

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Bank_robbery

Most of it was stopped and some was even recovered but $66Million is still lost 10years later .

In both incidents protection are reliant on the authorities to minimize the damage ; tether and circle able to freeze tokens is not that different from the traditional finance doing it.

Crypto is only reinventing structures that evolved in every financial system over time.

Overtime they are going away from their founding theme of decentralization . Exchanges and stable coin issuers who can freeze wallets and coins are by definition centralization ; it is worse though as these organizations are less transparent than banks with less accountability

▲lokar 38 minutes ago | parent [-]

And as the stable coin operators and exchanges grow closer with governments and political elites they will add more and more controls in exchange for legitimacy.

▲csomar 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Bank_robbery

Most of the billion was frozen though if it was not frozen in time it would have probably evaporated just like these bitcoins getting into mixers.

▲gregschlom 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

And yet somehow nobody hears about North Korean hackers stealing billions from regular banks.

▲skinfaxi 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

https://www.cisa.gov/news-events/cybersecurity-advisories/aa...

▲csomar 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

wire fraud, credit card fraud, pig butchering (a different way to access the accounts really), etc.. The traditional system do have some safeties but it's not impenetrable.