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| ▲ | Nursie 6 days ago | parent [-] | | That whole "I made my friends on IRC asking about linux, if AI renders this obsolete how am I going to meet anyone?" screams (to use a fairly dismissive neologism) "touch grass". | | |
| ▲ | ShinyLeftPad 6 days ago | parent [-] | | You are very selective. It writes "ways of how people build relationships disappear". It says: work goes away (no colleagues), studying goes away (no classmates), showing off to potential mates by doing cool stuff goes away (because why bother, anything you make people can just say "it was AI/robots" and they can prompt it), asking knowledgeable friends how to do X goes away because you just ask LLMs. All things true regardless of whether you're online And you just trigger on that IRC word like only neckbeards in server dungenons ever used it. | | |
| ▲ | watwut 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | If work goes away, society breaks down, you live in abject poverty completely dependent on other people. Yes, you will socialize - you will need to form aliances just to get food and protection. And yeah, a lot of that will sux, because you will need to deal with every controlling asshole trying to push his rule on you. And back in real world, people socialize and talk with others for non-transactional reasons. Not just to get answers. Those non-lonely people and subgroups that is. | | |
| ▲ | ShinyLeftPad 6 days ago | parent [-] | | > If work goes away, society breaks down The other premise was UBI. It's the article. how much better discussions would be if people read it? > non-transactional reasons. Not just to get answers 0) i don't know about you but I like asking people about things because I just like hanging out with people, up to a point. how long this will remain true for humanity as a whole is the question, we can't know 1) if you listen to evolutionary biologists then everything we do is transactional for reproductive purposes, it depends on how deep you dig;) | | |
| ▲ | watwut 6 days ago | parent [-] | | Yeah, but UBI is bullshit. It is impossible to buy UBI. The big American capitalists will recreate communism? It just wont happen AI or not. But, if UBI happens, living on UBI will be poverty. > 0) i don't know about you but I like asking people about things because I just like hanging out with people, up to a point. how long this will remain true for humanity as a whole is the question, we can't know You can ask people if you like asking people even if AI exists. Chatbot does not make asking people impossible if connection is what you are after. > 1) if you listen to evolutionary biologists then everything we do is transactional for reproductive purposes, it depends on how deep you dig;) Anticonception. We do quite a lot to not have kids. There is evolutionary science and there is ideology using evolution as excuse. | | |
| ▲ | ShinyLeftPad 6 days ago | parent [-] | | > The big American capitalists will recreate communism? They will do the minimum necessary to keep people from revolting. The minimum will be less and less as time goes by and surveillance/elimination get better/cheaper. | | |
| ▲ | watwut 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | So, we are back at what I said - poverty and aliances fighting for scarce resources. | | |
| ▲ | ShinyLeftPad 5 days ago | parent [-] | | no we're back to UBI. First maybe UHI as Musk called it, later UBI. It's cheaper because people won't bite the hand that feeds you. If there's no hand, people won't fight each other for resources, they'll fight the rich. | | |
| ▲ | lazide 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | The entire idea is just a trap, and an illusion sold by folks like musk while they continue to do what they do. The only way it would be funded is with ‘chains’/conditions. | | |
| ▲ | ShinyLeftPad 5 days ago | parent [-] | | What idea is a trap? That population will live at behest of overlords who control technology and give people the minimum necessary? Such an appealing trap huh | | |
| ▲ | lazide 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Compared to mass unemployment, eating dog food to stay alive, etc. which is the other obvious alternative? Why do you think the musks of the world keep touting it. | | |
| ▲ | ShinyLeftPad 5 days ago | parent [-] | | compared to a future where the tech they use to wield this sort of power is not allowed to exist. or even to status quo. they tout UBI because it's one more way to control. | | |
| ▲ | lazide 4 days ago | parent [-] | | Eh, status quo is impossible once the cat is out of the bag. It’s essentially nuclear weapons, except for social manipulation and propaganda production. It’s too tempting/useful for any gov’t or large corporation to really allow to be banned. At least for them. | | |
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| ▲ | Apocryphon 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Again, the trap is believing that there is even an will to create such a bandaid, when the status quo could just continue indefinitely. | | |
| ▲ | ShinyLeftPad 5 days ago | parent [-] | | Again the status quo continuing is the good outcome here. UBI is a means of control, not some utopian communism. |
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| ▲ | watwut 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Elon Musk that Doge creator, the guy who pretended to save pennies so that he can cause as much damage to as many people as possible while costing a lot of money and breaking laws? That guy? |
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| ▲ | Apocryphon 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Bold of you to assume that they will do the former and not just go all in on the latter. |
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| ▲ | Nursie 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Sorry, but I very much disagree. Firstly, it made no mention of showing off to potential mates, to my reading. But have no fear, regardless of scarcity people will have ways to signal fitness to find mates and build hierarchies out of it, we're very good at that. It might come down to fashion choices, leisure activity choices, really anything. Secondly, every example of how this person connects with others is to do with technology and career advancement. He wasn't asking knowledgable friends for advice, he was asking questions to strangers about linux on IRC. He doesn't talk about social groups or sports clubs, he was talking about communities of practice and his professional work. He values learning only for career advancement. Those ways of building relationships might disappear, but old ladies will still get together to crochet and natter. Middle aged men will still make and drink beer together, or practice woodworking skills. Younger guys and gals will still form sports teams. And people will still learn for the love of learning. You know, things which already happen away from the screen. Ordinary, everyday human stuff. tl;dr - touch grass, the article says a lot more about the author's life than our future prospects as humans. | | |
| ▲ | ShinyLeftPad 6 days ago | parent [-] | | > He wasn't asking knowledgable friends for advice, he was asking questions to strangers about linux on IRC. A stranger is a friend you haven't made yet. Asking strangers is one good way to make friends. | | |
| ▲ | Nursie 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | It's true, but it's far from the only way to break the ice. Really on top of the particularly narrow viewpoint the OP has on life and human relations, I find the core notion itself absurd - "In the future because of X, Y and Z, why will people bother to socialise?" Because ... people like socialising. | | |
| ▲ | ShinyLeftPad 6 days ago | parent [-] | | I think they like socializing decreasingly less https://www.derekthompson.org/p/the-death-of-the-american-ho... | | |
| ▲ | Nursie 6 days ago | parent [-] | | I think there are some valid points to be made about how people's socialising patterns are changing in the light of modern interactions with tech, but also about using US social habits as a proxy for everyone else's. I've rarely entertained people in my home even during my most sociable times, pubs, clubs and restaurants much more frequently figure in my calendar. All that and the author of this article still needs to get out and touch grass. | | |
| ▲ | ShinyLeftPad 5 days ago | parent [-] | | I think these stats are true for most western developed countries https://www.dw.com/en/germany-sees-loneliness-epidemic-among... Telling people to touch grass doesn't magically invert trends. | | |
| ▲ | Nursie 5 days ago | parent [-] | | These are somewhat orthoganal - young people are lonelier != everyone else has a fixed supply of friends and can never make more. Nor does it change the fact that the author, who clearly does want to socialise, would benefit from doing something outside of their tech bubble and widening their horizons beyond "things that could conceivably further my career". | | |
| ▲ | ShinyLeftPad 5 days ago | parent [-] | | > the fact that the author, who clearly does want to socialise, would benefit from doing something outside of their tech bubble I am not in SV and i don't have a single irl tech friend. OK, maybe just one. Most of my friends would agree with me and with article author. One of them goes further and doesn't even have a smartphone. IME techies very rarely have these concerns. So I'm not sure who is in a tech bubble between me and all those people in this thread saying how the logic is illegitimate because the author doesn't go out (which I guess is a "fact" because they all know him personally lol) | | |
| ▲ | Nursie 21 hours ago | parent [-] | | > I am not in SV and i don't have a single irl tech friend. Then you are not at all like the author, who is specifically decrying the loss of tech-related avenues to meet people, and calls them out as his only ways of meeting people. You've done some sort of mental back-flip by this point in the thread, and are ignoring what the author wrote about themselves and how they meet people. |
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| ▲ | gherkinnn 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Then ask strangers about identifying birds instead of Linux. | | |
| ▲ | Hamuko 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Isn't that exactly the kind of thing that would be offloaded to an AI? If you can just take a picture, record the sound, or vaguely describe a bird and it instantly gives you an answer. | |
| ▲ | ShinyLeftPad 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | The stranger will tell you just ask a model. |
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| ▲ | gherkinnn 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Oh for fucks sake. Again. Go outside, take a dancing lesson and get laid. Grow some vegetables, build a castle, anything. HN is comically narrow minded sometimes. | | |
| ▲ | ShinyLeftPad 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Anything to keep shareholder value going up! | |
| ▲ | Personability 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You shouldn't have to compromise on the things you like to do. | | |
| ▲ | tarpitt 5 days ago | parent [-] | | The way I see it, we have two good options here. We can let go or be dragged. |
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| ▲ | tarpitt 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | >take a dancing lesson This is gonna be boring as hell, especially if you can download justdance.exe to your brain. >get laid It's not possible or desirable for many thanks to the current state of sexual involution. I suspect that the hyperintelligent sex robots might also may make this inviable as a source of human-human connection. >Grow some vegetables, build a castle, anything You need land ownership, which, as one of the few limited things in a post-scarcity society might just explode in value. But I admit it would be pretty cool if the post-scarcity world is basicially just like minecraft creative mode do whatever you want type of environment. Still, with some limitations still in place, I imagine it will look more like 2b2t. | | |
| ▲ | Apocryphon 5 days ago | parent [-] | | > especially if you can download justdance.exe to your brain. A lot of Singularity fiction was babbling about life extension technologies and mind uploads long before LLMs existed. I've always been skeptical - maybe there's just fundamental biological (and in the case of stuff like cheap fusion or FTL travel - physical) constraints that will keep even a superintelligence from inventing magical Clarketech. | | |
| ▲ | tarpitt 5 days ago | parent [-] | | I think you make a good point. If BCI is limited or impossible then then the future may be very intricate - perhaps Dune-like in the sense that natural human capability becomes the measuring stick for achievement. Humanity will become a beautiful anachronism like mechanical watches or bonsai trees or something. We will become dedicated to the art and science of our own self-cultivation. On the other hand, If BCI is possible and useful, life will be miserable and we will borg ourselves just to keep up with the cost of living. We will be brains in jars on server racks solving captchas or something. We'll be the solution to AI hardware prices- the paperclip machine will be capitalism and nature itself. |
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| ▲ | Barrin92 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | >It is super-real. You are a dork if you don't use it. who cares? As long as the number of dorks is larger than zero, and it is, you can build your own community. People used to settle towns in the dirt when they scarcely had anything to eat and what, we now can't open a community center, or a maker space? The very place you're living in right now was created likely by some complete nutjob who thought reality was too boring. There's always a 'life outside' because that's quite literally the nature of life. There's no box tight enough life can't get out of. | | |
| ▲ | tarpitt 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Technology is this one-way ratcheting mechanism which will crush everything dignified within its trajectory. I'm attached to the idea that only the way out of this is up and out. That the solution is to escape into something(?) hyperreal that confounds the assumptions of our unescapable problem. Not cyberspace or VR as we know it, but maybe something more real than that. Something that is limited in the way reality is limited. >People used to settle towns in the dirt when they scarcely had anything to eat and what, we now can't open a community center, or a maker space? The problem, which i have been grappling with for the past decade, is precisely that there is too much opportunity. there are too many options. Things are too interconnected. Human connection is devalued. I don't think you can merely solve it with more interconnection (although I will try). When the founders of this country got here, they similarly did it to embrace the problems of a dynamic, dangerous, unsolved world, and to leave the glacial solved world behind them. They went from an old occupied world into a new virgin world. And I agree with you that we need to be like them, founders of a new world, but I disagree with you about what that new world entails because we don't know of virgin lands that would free us from the grip of the old world anymore. It used to be that if you wanted to go to a virgin land you would sail out into a remote island or rainforest something. But now that remote island also has sattelite internet and we have airplanes and boats and we realize it's not really that remote. We could go to mars and the technological arm of the old world would reach us. Maybe the virgin, disconnected world I seek could be an underworld or something, so that there is justification for it to be close and meaningful and disconnected from the overworld. I don't know. We need to discover an unsolved world. Up and out! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUvIiBUBe-g | | |
| ▲ | bluefirebrand 5 days ago | parent [-] | | > Technology is this one-way ratcheting mechanism which will crush everything dignified within its trajectory. I'm attached to the idea that only the way out of this is up and out. That the solution is to escape into something(?) hyperreal that confounds the assumptions of our unescapable problem This is a bizarre thought for me to entertain. I understand the idea of "up and out" but I don't think the next rung to escape technology can be built with technology then. That would not be "out", it would be trapped more than ever before |
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| ▲ | RGamma 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | The internet was/is inter-machine communication for the military (and/or business), then a way to beat our ignorance, then a user-generated content machine. It was most certainly not invented by someone who thought reality is too boring. I find this wider reactionary "touch grass" movement boring and interesting simultaneously. It is boring, because nobody interested in internet-as-community health asked for many of the abuses that have happened to it and obviously you'd want to flee those. It is interesting because... I never would have expected that 20 years ago. |
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| ▲ | 1shooner 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >The nexus of canonical, shared reality now exists online. I'm not entirely sure what this even means, but I belong to several communities that get together in person and talk about very non-online things. They use email to coordinate, that's about as online as they get. And it's not hard, or a big deal. They aren't neo-luddite revolutionaries or anything, the internet just doesn't come up. | |
| ▲ | chantepierre 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I don't know man... join groups related to your interests IRL, meet people, and you'll see that for a lot of groups, internet can be summarized as "whatsapp to plan the next gatherings". Things do happen offline |
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