| ▲ | bananzamba 6 hours ago |
| How are they trusting Google not to destill them |
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| ▲ | dumberquestions 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| This is speculation, but funnily enough Gemini models show the least evidence of being distilled from OAI or Anthropic compared to everything else in the market. |
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| ▲ | BudaDude 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | I feel this is correct. Google has probably the most data of any company in the world. For better or worse, they don't need to train on the outputs of other models. |
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| ▲ | runeblaze an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| At a org like Google Cloud barring rogue L5/6/7s acting on their own any sniffing of distillation will get leaked. Too many chaos exist at a org size of Google to systematically do it given the contract at hand. This is a company where every spicy memo or mild gossip will risk leaks. |
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| ▲ | iamdelirium 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| GCP already hosts Anthropic models so probably trusts and lawyers. |
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| ▲ | lrvick 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Probably a very strict contract, and letting OpenAI read all the session logs like they do for their own customers. |
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| ▲ | aviinuo 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Nvidia GPUs let you load encrypted weights onto them and to decrypt on chip so Google would need to have some sort of Nvidia management firmware attack to read from HBM while the GPU is live |
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| ▲ | jayd16 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Isn't distillation more of a black box type affair? | |
| ▲ | zeroxfe 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Distillation does not require access to weights. | |
| ▲ | binlog 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Doesn’t really matter what happens at the GPU level when Google can see all API traffic. | |
| ▲ | worldsavior 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Except google cloud doesn't use Nvidia GPUs but TPUs. | | |
| ▲ | Mond_ 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Google has both. Afaik we don't know whether OpenAI models will run on TPUs or GPUs here. | | |
| ▲ | tgma 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I bet it would be the NVIDIA, at least initially, not for the encryption capability per se, but for simple fact that adapting to TPU at high performance is non-trivial. |
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| ▲ | amelius 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| First answer this: How are they trusting OpenRouter not to distill them? |
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| ▲ | skohan 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Open router doesn't host the models, so they wouldn't have access to the weights or reasoning traces right? | | |
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| ▲ | binlog 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Contracts and lawyers are more powerful than any technical tool. |
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| ▲ | amelius 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yeah like the copyright lawyers of content owners that got their works trained on? | | |
| ▲ | paxy 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | How many trillions of dollars were those content owners worth? | | |
| ▲ | kridsdale1 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Enough. They just weren’t working in coordination. | | |
| ▲ | paxy 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | You are vastly overestimating the power of publishers. The top book publisher in the US is worth $5 billion. All publishers together are about $50 billion. The New York Times is $11 billion. Fox is about $15-25 billion. Add together every single book publisher, newspaper, magazine, TV/radio, digital publisher and really every print and broadcasting platform in the country and you’d reach about $100-$150 billion. That is roughly 3% of Google. These companies have a ton of cultural capital, sure, but in American capitalism that means nothing. |
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| ▲ | tgma 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| America is a high-trust society. |
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| ▲ | toephu2 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Japan is a high-trust society. America is the opposite. | | | |
| ▲ | paxy 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | More like - America is a high-litigation society. | | |
| ▲ | tgma 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't believe threat of litigation alone explains the extent of it. The way an American company, esp a reputable one like Google, conducts itself internally is different. There will be much more internal backlash to do the wrong thing way before litigation. |
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| ▲ | WarmWash 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Google Cloud couldn't give a shit about Google Deepmind, and backdooring Clouds customers only stands to hurt Cloud. |
