| ▲ | metabagel 4 hours ago |
| I tried to get a family member to use Signal, and she eventually gave up on it, because she couldn't handle switching back and forth between Messages and Signal. It's very difficult to get people to migrate to better platforms when they have that mindset. |
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| ▲ | ninalanyon 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| That's why we need to separate the protocol from the UI. There is absolutely no good reason why the different platforms should disallow communication with each other. I used to use a multiprotocol client, Pidgin, to chat with people on a couple of different platforms. But of course now a lot of chat is on things like Facebook and Google Chat which are supported only by plugins.
But even that is still not enough because I will have to have an account on each of the platforms. Chat really needs to be like email or SMS; you ought not to need an account with the provider of the person you are sending messages to. |
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| ▲ | betterunix2 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There is one good reason: abuse. Think about how long it took to get email spam under control (and even so it remains a problem). Think about the ongoing problems with spam phone calls. Now pretend you are someone with no technical background, someone who only sees the UI and does not really understand what happens behind it -- you are not seeing spam on closed systems, you are seeing spam on open systems, what are you going to choose? Also keep in mind that there are worse forms of abuse than spam. | |
| ▲ | mooreds 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Jabber would like a word: https://jabber.org/ But seriously, there's zero incentive for the folks building these clients to make them interoperable. In fact there may even be disincentive, since the more folks they have on their platform, the more valuable the platform is. | | |
| ▲ | metabagel 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | The EU forced Apple to use USB-C on iPhones, because it was stupid and wasteful for people to have two different types of chargers in their home for their small electronic rechargeable devices. Government does have the power to regulate things like this. They would need to be educated to understand the importance and benefit of it. | | |
| ▲ | jimmydorry 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The EU was actually on the path to forcing everyone to use micro-USB. Thankfully Apple (and others) pioneered USB-C (bringing what it learnt from developing the lightning connector) in the time it took the EU to go from making all of the phone makers sign a Memorandum of Understanding to making it legislation. Now the EU is frozen in time, stuck on USB-C for the forseeable future. The economics to make a device dual port (USB-C and something new) aren't there, so we're not likely to ever see an improvement on USB-C... in an alternative timeline, we could have been stuck on the even worse micro-USB. Bringing it back to the topic on hand, this is very much an area I wouldn't want to see a heavy handed EU legislate something that just further cements the incumbants and makes everything worse forever... just like mandatory micro-USB would have been. I can totally see the EU legislating something like a mandatory Meta communication protocol with compulsory attestation from Meta servers. | |
| ▲ | NetMageSCW 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Apple changed to USB-C after Lightning was ten years old, exactly as they promised ten years before. The EU regulation didn’t force Apple to do anything, its deadline was a couple years after Apple switched, and Apple assisted in the creation of USB-C and after they had already switched their laptops. |
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| ▲ | giantg2 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | "There is absolutely no good reason why the different platforms should disallow communication with each other." Maybe aside from the increased attack surface and trust issues... |
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| ▲ | james_marks 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You're asking the family member to make their life worse in the immediate term. If you want people to adopt your thing, it's got to make their life easier, right now, full stop. |
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| ▲ | 10111001 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > If you want people to adopt your thing, it's got to make their life easier, right now, full stop. But somewhat counterintuitively, you can do that by making their life a little harder first. For example: leave Facebook/WhatsApp, refuse to communicate over SMS. Have good reasons for each, so you don't come off as unnecessarily difficult. Explain that Signal is far more secure and private than either and just as easy to use. Then using Signal is making it easier to communicate with you. It worked for me. I left the whole Facebook ecosystem about 10 years ago, but never deleted my account. I left it up as a tombstone that makes it very clear I'm not there and tells people how to contact me. |
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| ▲ | MisterTea 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I don't understand why having more than one chat app is too much for some people. I use signal, whatsapp, discord, irc, google chat, email and messenger without complaint. I can't force people to use my platform of choice so I have to compromise and use what they do with little to no notice on my end. Sure, I am not happy with this situation but I accept it and move on while keeping an eye out for alternatives. |
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| ▲ | CoastalCoder 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Maybe related to how much brain space they're willing to spend on that facet of life? There are certainly parts of my life that would be more optimized if that weren't a constraint. | | |
| ▲ | MisterTea 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | What brain space? These apps take seconds to install and get an account connected. After that you forget it exists until someone messages you. | | |
| ▲ | dpkirchner 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Consider the opposite direction: what if you want to message someone? What if you haven't messaged them in a while? Imagine you have seven messaging apps installed, some of the names you've forgotten ("Discord", is that obviously a messaging app?). Imagine you know that they're reachable somewhere just not exactly where. | | |
| ▲ | MisterTea 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I honestly have never had this issue. It's really about focus and effort. If the person is important enough, I will most likely remember how to contact them. I also mostly use email for all important communications so that remains searchable. The other chat apps are all for casual friends and acquaintances that if lost, well so be it. | | |
| ▲ | NetMageSCW 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | None of my older relatives use email. They can text however (or iMessage, since it is transparent). Not everyone cares so little for friends and acquaintances. |
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| ▲ | mingus88 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | And what if you want to contact someone? Are they on signal or WhatsApp or telegram? Or is it discord? Which server? How can I find that thing someone sent? Let me just open all those apps and start searching I think you underestimate how little tolerance the average person has for this kind of friction. These huge platforms win because everyone is on them and it all just works. | |
| ▲ | sodapopcan 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You are speaking as someone who gives a shit about technology. Many people don't. "Just another account" is a big ask for many, as lots of people don't have password managers. There are a whole shit ton of people who want to use as few apps as they can. Even lots of tech-savvy people, myself included, feel this way. > After that you forget it exists until someone messages you. Until you get a random notification asking you to take steps to keep your account active or whatever. You may not care about this, but many people get stressed out about this kind of thing. |
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| ▲ | SoftTalker 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Every app you add to your phone is another potential vulnerability. I'm not installing a random discord or irc app just because that's someone's preferred platform. In fact I haven't installed any chat/message apps at all, I use the Messages app from Apple. |
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| ▲ | mingus88 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| The network effect is powerful. But we also need to be honest with ourselves. Signal is an objectively worse client than Messages, especially when the average person does not value privacy. |