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▲ mym1990 4 hours ago

I can prompt an LLM to refute this and it would give me 5 reasons HOAs are making things better. Hard to read this and really come away with a sense of what the truth is. HOAs and homeowners have always been at odds but HOAs do provide some benefit in large communities. I hardly feel like they are making the “home crisis” worse.

▲carsoon 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You can prompt an llm and make it give you 5 reasons for any argument. LLMs are very good at writing highly convincing things that sound logical but may or may not be based in reality.

Would be better to say "I can run a research agent session and it can pull 5 data trends and papers that show the HOA are making things better" (I dont know if this is true and I did not do it)

I don't really think HOAs are the biggest driver of home prices/availbility one way or the other though.

▲watty 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think that's his point as this article reads like that exact prompt. Pure LLM garbage.

▲foltik 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

And this is of the typical quality of what you’d get.

80% incoherent narration of random numbers, all down to the 1’s place so it looks super duper precise and impressive if you squint and don’t think too hard, like the “author” seems to have done.

▲amanaplanacanal 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

To an extent they might make sense where there are shared facilities that need to be funded, like a swimming pool or something. Most of what they seem to do is just bullshit though.

▲abakker 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You can accomplish this without an HOA, also. That’s just a non-profit. The idea that deed restrictions and dues are tied together is a serious overstep, in my opinion.

▲sgarland 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes. I lived in an HOA neighborhood in Texas that was fine. Dues were $25/month, and from that we got a nice community pool, and a legitimately nice Christmas party: they’d rent food trucks that were pre-paid, put up a Santa village, bring in VR rides, etc. All paid for from dues. They also really did not bother you if you were making an attempt at keeping your place looking decent.

Then I moved to one in North Carolina that was god-awful. Dues started at $65/month and went up every year. They’d send out neighborhood reminders that a pressure-washing service would be in the neighborhood next week if anyone wanted to hire them; anyone who didn’t got notices a few weeks later that they needed to pressure-wash their driveway and/or house. I also had to buy a specific brand and sheen of paint to repaint my mailbox; of course, the lettering was only available from a single supplier.

I now live on an acre lot that sits between two neighborhoods. I have no HOA, and it is glorious.

▲technothrasher 32 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I live on a shared driveway with two other neighbors. The zoning laws in my town require an HOA for any shared driveways. So I technically live under an HOA. But we’ve all agreed to not fund it or bring it to life in any way. We just work out the shared responsibilities of the driveway informally over a bottle of whiskey.

▲monksy 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Then I moved to one in North Carolina that was god-awful. Dues started at $65/month and went up every year. They’d send out neighborhood reminders that a pressure-washing service would be in the neighborhood next week if anyone wanted to hire them; anyone who didn’t got notices a few weeks later that they needed to pressure-wash their driveway and/or house. I also had to buy a specific brand and sheen of paint to repaint my mailbox; of course, the lettering was only available from a single supplier.

There really needs to be a way to harm organizations that do this. The HOA system is setup where the organization is protected and given the ability to make these kinds of rules. The only real option you have in that is you have to pawn the property off to some poor sucker that will also run into this issue later.

▲CGMthrowaway 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>To an extent they might make sense where there are shared facilities that need to be funded, like a swimming pool or something. Most of what they seem to do is just bullshit though.

You can say the exact same about the government. To be clear, are you in favor of more liberty for homeowners, or are you in favor of the government stepping in to regulate HOAs?

▲easterncalculus 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The purpose of the system is what it does - providing retirees with even faker jobs than they gave up to go on vacation paid by the fools that still work.

▲ikmckenz 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I can prompt an LLM to refute this and it would give me 5 reasons ... Hard to read this and really come away with a sense of what the truth is.

Are you arguing a meta point that there is no such thing as truth because LLMs can make you any counter argument to you want? That seems bleak. Argue against the actual points of the article.

▲plasticeagle 3 hours ago | parent [-]

What points? Does the article make any points? I couldn't find any. For instance, point 1 ends with

"A foreclosure suit is not a lost home — most end when the owner, or the owner's lender, pays — but the pressure is the point."

Which makes no sense whatsoever. I thought they were making a housing crisis worse by forcing foreclosures, but now apparently "the pressure is the point." The point of what, exactly?

▲ 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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▲guax 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I can prompt and LLM to prove this and it gives me 5 reasons HOAs are making things worse.

▲stonogo an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"HOAs and homeowners have always been at odds" might be the most succinct description of the problem that modern "homeowner associations" constitute.

▲johnnyApplePRNG 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's not a reason to change your mind ... LLMs can refute anything you ask them to without thinking.

▲dyauspitr 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wouldn’t want to live in a neighborhood without an HOA, especially in the south. If you don’t have an HOA like 30% of your neighbors are going to have a lot full of junk cars, houses patchily painted lavender and shitty unmowed front yards. However, I very carefully read all the fine print for what the HOA enforces and how much it costs before each home purchase. Some of them can be insane. I’ve seen up to $500 a month.

▲driverdan 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> houses patchily painted lavender

What's wrong with lavender? Why does everything have to be a boring tan or grey? You sound like the exact reason I would never buy a house with an HOA.

▲coded_monkey 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You care about unmowed frontyards? No wonder your country is going to shit if this is what you’re worried about.

▲BoggleOhYeah 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Barring any guardrails, AI would tell me that the Holocaust had redeeming qualities if I asked it.

They are not truth or judgment machines.

▲cyanydeez 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

▲mogwire 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

How does this add to the conversation?

The constant history lesson of what something was 80-90 years ago but they aren’t that way anymore but they were doesn’t advance the conversation especially when it has no impact on the actual topic.

▲mullingitover 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Adding some context, that they were started out with pretty harmful intentions, to the discussion about how they are harmful today is very on topic.

> 80-90 years ago

Today's HOAs are very frequently involved in racial discrimination suits for violations of the Fair Housing Act.

▲throwawayfifo 3 hours ago | parent [-]

>Today's HOAs are very frequently involved in racial discrimination suits for violations of the Fair Housing Act.

No they're not.

▲mullingitover 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Sorry, that wasn't my opinion I was trying to debate, that's just a fact reported by HUD[1].

[1] https://www.hud.gov/sites/dfiles/FHEO/documents/FHEO%20Annua...

▲throwawayfifo 15 minutes ago | parent [-]

>Sorry, that wasn't my opinion

Ah, so it's a delusional belief not based on facts or reality.

>that's just a fact reported by HUD

Categorically false claim not made in your source. The linked article makes zero claims about HOAs being "very frequently involved in racial discrimination suits for violations of the Fair Housing Act."

▲howunfortunate 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Even if I accepted the premise that racial segregation was the sole reason for their creation, if that's no longer their purpose, why does it matter?

▲haunter 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> HOAs exist as a way to enforce racial segregation

How do HOAs enforce racial segregation in monoethnic countries?

"HOAs are most frequently found in the United States, Japan, Canada, Australia, and the Philippines, and to some extent in other countries, such as New Zealand, Israel, Mauritius, South Africa, most of the countries of the European Union, such as Denmark, France, Germany, Spain, the Netherlands, Ireland, Austria, Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, Greece, Sweden, Belgium, Croatia, the Czech Republic, Latvia, Lithuania, Cyprus, Luxembourg, Estonia, Slovakia and Slovenia, and some of the Latin American countries, such as Chile, Argentina, Brazil and Mexico."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeowner_association

▲otterley 3 hours ago | parent [-]

The U.S., Canada, South Africa, Australia, and Brazil are not mono-ethnic countries.

▲throwawayfifo 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No. The Democratic Party exists as a way to enforce racial segregation.

Thats no longer the reason they still persist. But their creation was nothing but.

▲ 3 hours ago | parent [-]
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