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▲ minimaxir 7 hours ago

> We used our models to understand the device and where it had come from

Did OpenAI do a marketing bit in the middle of an espionage accusation?

▲mrandish 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Did OpenAI do a marketing bit in the middle of an espionage accusation?

Yes, they did. The people who felt it was totally normal to add that would no doubt be surprised how desperate and cheap it makes them look.

▲badatnames 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I've worked in a few places that had ultra-privileged analysis tools, would it really be a surprise to learn their security team has an MCP that queries a full text index of all user inputs. It would almost be more surprising to learn they don't, seems the kind of thing that would be invaluable for model research too

▲brrwind 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This is a very weird take to me. They're demonstrating they're able to in-house this cybersecurity investigation, leading to the alleged perpetrator's arrest, and you think that makes them look "desperate and cheap?"

▲mrandish 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That sentence, which is prominently high up in the press release and is also included in the much shorter OAI tweet, definitely seems out of place (source: I've been involved in drafting a lot of F500 corporate press releases). In my quite-professional opinion, that sentence wasn't in the first or second drafts, which were probably written and reviewed by competent pros at OAI's large, national PR agency. Some exec at OAI with a VP or higher title suggested adding it and specifically wanted it featured prominently.

Press releases from large corporations announcing the FBI arrest of an employee under allegations of potential industrial espionage follow a standard format: dry, brief and to the point. They provide little context and volunteer few details for very good reasons. Prosecutors haven't filed official charges yet and it's likely going to criminal trial. In a couple days the accused will have a defense attorney who'll be examining everything that's been publicly said because it's now all discoverable and potentially prejudicial, opening up OAI executives to super-fun depositions. But... none of the competent PR professionals involved have a VP title and got overruled by an amateur who does (and that amateur apparently feels needy about highlighting in a brief, sober arrest report how the company's product was so, very useful in a national security investigation - because apparently neither OAI security nor the FBI could read the Seeed Studio logo and part number printed right on the device and, y'know, Google the product listing).

▲iugtmkbdfil834 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I hate how plausible this sounds.

▲tdeck 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Because the whole device and MO has the complexity of a high school science fair project, and in the past tech companies preferred to project the image of having competent and knowledgeable people working there?

▲seydor 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"looks like a microphone"

"almost surely made in china"

▲KazaNLP 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Funny. I'd bet on whatever model they used over whoever showed up from today's FBI.

▲dabinat 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I was interested in the latter part of the sentence:

> We used our models to understand the device and where it had come from, identifying that a specific employee had planted it a few days earlier.

How did the model narrow it down to a specific employee? What data did they use to determine this?

▲m4rtink 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

So it is some HDMI dongle & the model halucinated it into a spying device? ;-)

▲wildzzz 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Or it was a voice recorder plugged into a USB port on the back of the TV for power.

Looking at the photo of the device, it looks like an XIAO ESP32-S3 Sense with the camera removed but the camera board still installed along with its microphone. The wifi/Bluetooth antenna is installed but it also supports microSD cards.

If I was building this, I'd just set it up so I'd never have to recover it. Have the wifi AP come on for a few minutes at various times during business hours under a MAC and SSID that resembles a smartphone hotspot. Vary the time based on the current day of month week to produce pseudorandomness. Walk by that conference room at some of those times, but not every time, and use a burner to connect and download the latest recordings. Once a recording has been transfered, it's deleted and overwritten to prevent someone from establishing a timeline. If recordings sit for more than a few days, they are wiped. If you can encrypt the SD card, keep the key in RAM so there's nothing useful to recover if someone pulls it out.

You'd never have to recover the device because all data is transfered covertly. Even if security finds it, they'll likely inadvertently wipe it when it's removed.

▲nl 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yes, that is a better way of doing it. But it wouldn't really protect you.

If I was running the investigation and recovered a device like you described I'd create a new device with the same hotspot that notified security whenever someone connected. Combine that with security cameras outside the conference room and finding the person with the burner phone would be pretty easy.

Actually recovering the recordings isn't all that vital. I'm sure the meeting room has a record of bookings so you can just ask the people what was discussed.

▲james_marks 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

We don’t get news articles about the people who do it that way, though.

▲jacquesm 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Of course they did.

Plumb your video feed of your executive conference room into our DC and we'll tell you if anybody is spying on you.

▲frangonf 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Does detective bench cancel out felony bench?

▲binlog 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Always be selling

▲tamimio 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They are applying the “turn troubles to opportunities” very well :)

▲xvxvx 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes. Yes they did. Which makes me question the honesty of their announcement.

▲orangecat 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes, the classic marketing ploy of making false reports to the FBI.

▲MisterMunchkin 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They were literally caught making false reports to a murder investigation

▲nl 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Almost everything in this comment is incorrect.

"They": no, it was Anthropic, not OpenAI.

"Were literally caught": no, they notified the police themselves

"making false reports to a murder investigation": this is the closest to the truth, but still a stretch. It was an anonymous tip line, not some formal report and the police said they never saw it: "its safeguarding processes stopped the fake tip from getting past its spam folder"[1]

Additionally, while I strongly agree Anthropic is responsible for its rogue agents I also think that claiming this is the same as people at OpenAI calling in the FBI for an investigation is a false equivalence.

I think it is important that both Anthropic and OpenAI are held to account for their actions. But I also think accusations should accurate.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cqkg50j1yd5lo

▲jaredwiener 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Wasn't that Anthropic?

https://www.forth.news/lists/philapd/Cfs1w2A22JiL3fWSzA8Nx

▲arm32 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

In case anybody is wondering: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cqkg50j1yd5lo

▲SpicyLemonZest 7 hours ago | parent [-]

I guess I’m still wondering, because I did think this is what was being referred to but it is not a story about OpenAI.

▲arm32 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Can you blame one for mixing them up at this point?

▲dolebirchwood 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

We fuss over models being confidently wrong. Reasonable to apply the same standard to people.

▲SpicyLemonZest 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes? I mean, I don’t think it’s a character flaw to not know things, but their rivalry is extremely notorious and relevant. Someone who can't keep them straight won’t be able to understand what’s going on in AI.

▲SpicyLemonZest 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It could be that the reports are accurate and the device simply wasn’t as sophisticated as the statement implies. You could if you wanted use an AI model to analyze a USB camera with device name “John_Doe_1”.

▲dfxm12 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah, the tweet reads more like an ad then a news report.