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▲ skybrian 3 hours ago

If algorithmic theorists don't care about practical performance then why should we care about what they're doing? It's just a strange game they're playing, of no interest to anyone else.

It seems like rather than coming up with more "galactic" algorithms, a more useful thing to do might be to come up with a replacement for big-O that's not so exploitable, and to convince theoreticians to play that game instead.

▲cpa 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You care because Pierre de Fermat 16th century work on modular arithmetic was of “no intest to anyone else” except other theorists but it got to shine in the twentienth century in modern cryptography.

Doing theory is what gives you a chance to push the envelope to places you can’t even imagine when you’re knee deep in real world problems. And proving something is possible (if impractical) gives an incentive to find a better algorithm and may attract others.

For example see the first graph here: http://klotza.blogspot.com/2016/06/the-fall-of-twin-prime-ga...

▲ViscountPenguin 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Considering this line:

" In 1973, Jacques Morgenstern proved that you couldn’t get a Fourier transform faster than ½ n log n if you required that complex coefficients used in the computation had bounded magnitude"

I highly doubt this is going to somehow inspire people to make faster algorithms than the mathematical bound...

I have no problem with pure mathematics, my training was in it; but it seems very possible to me that most people funding theoretical computer science (as opposed to pure maths) probably assume the work has a more realistic computational model backing it up.

▲tomrod 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Does the apply to representation of complex numbers, which is not uncountably infinite and represented by floats?

▲adastra22 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No, I don’t care. Until there is a real, practical result, I don’t care. There are plenty of examples of math discovered in service of solving a problem. There is nothing that says math has to be purely abstract first.

▲cpa 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Because clearly we’d have invented GPS if we had asked ourselves “how do I create a global positioning system with centimeter accuracy”?

▲adastra22 an hour ago | parent [-]

That is how we invented GPS...

▲cpa 36 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

And without relativity theory positioning error would be measured in kilometers.

▲robotpepi 22 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

doesn't it use special relativity or some modern physics?

▲mrheosuper 41 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

And that's fine, caring about everything is exhausting, someone has to solve real world problem. But dismissing a result since it's not practical is not fine

▲asdff 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You can't imagine how that severely limits the potential size of the discovery space shackling it to present day problems?

▲doug_durham 26 minutes ago | parent [-]

I think the poster is distinguishing between currently practical and ever practical. Galactic algorithms can never be realized.

▲satvikpendem 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ironic username as I doubt we'd get to the stars with your philosophy.

▲calf 43 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

How far are you willing to go? In your radical pragmatism, are you an intuitionist, or even a finitist? Oh wait, these are pure math topics that you do not care a about!

▲frotaur 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think you are free not to care about what they are doing. It turns out that big O notation has some useful properties, and in particular it is a useful definition as it allows you to define complexity classes which are a very useful tool for analyzing algorithms in general.

Much of our 'practical' understanding of algorithms also in part came from theoretical advances.

▲burpingtree an hour ago | parent | next [-]

The argument in the article isn’t about whether big O notation is useful it’s about whether the n in any particular big O is relevant. In this case the algorithm’s claim is that you can multiply arbitrarily large numbers faster than n log n where n is the size of the numbers being multiplied. But that result holds only if you don’t include the cost to multiple arbitrarily large complex numbers in that n, which are assumed to be able to multiply in constant time.

▲adastra22 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That’s sloppy reasoning. There might be notations that allow for classifying complexity classes that don’t suffer this problem.

▲robotpepi 14 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

your reasoning is sloppy. so confidently incorrect throughout this thread!

▲saghm 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You're free to propose one and see if it catches on

▲ToValueFunfetti 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That may well be the case, in theory.

▲EA-3167 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There might not be, how is your reasoning any less “sloppy”?

▲eru 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> If algorithmic theorists don't care about practical performance then why should we care about what they're doing? It's just a strange game they're playing, of no interest to anyone else.

You don't need to care. But every so often breakthroughs in theory can be turned into breakthroughs in practice.

> It seems like rather than coming up with more "galactic" algorithms, a more useful thing to do might be to come up with a replacement for big-O that's not so exploitable, and to convince theoreticians to play that game instead.

There's plenty of replacements.

Btw, we already have the optimal (in big-O terms) algorithm for every NP hard problem. We just don't know whether it runs in polynomial time or takes longer. And, yes, that algorithm called Levin's Universal Search is a galactic algorithm. Simplifying a lot, Levin's Universal Search does some clever interleaving to essentially try all possible algorithms in sort-of parallel.

Lo and behold, even the theorists you complain about don't see that 'loophole' as a solution, declare victory and go home. They still keep researching.

▲skybrian 2 hours ago | parent [-]

If Big-O lets you run every possible algorithm in "parallel" while still being in some sense "optimal," that seems like yet another exploit?

▲retsibsi an hour ago | parent [-]

As I read it, that was sort of their point: if the theorists were blindly focused on Big O complexity, they could 'cheat' by invoking the universal search algorithm as a good-enough solution to a huge class of problems; but they don't, because they're not mindlessly playing a game where Big O complexity is all that matters.

▲QuesnayJr 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

They do care. They also care about partial results. As of last week, we thought we knew the best possible algorithm. We now know that there's a galactic algorithm that's an asymptotic improvement. The question then becomes "Is there a non-galactic algoritm that does the same, or is any such algorithm necessarily galactic?"

The problem is that proving an algorithm is necessarily galactic is incredibly hard. If you knew how to do this, you would become one of the most celebrated complexity theorists of the age. Stanford would be calling.