| ▲ | 7e 2 hours ago |
| This is fun, but utility-scale solar is far cheaper. |
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| ▲ | bruce511 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| It doesn't have to be cheaper than utility-scale. It only has to be cheaper than retail electricity. In other words, it can be useful even if it's not the most efficient way to do it. It only has to be more efficient than the status quo. I don't have thd capital to build utility-scale solar. I do have the capital to install residential solar. My electricity is now cheaper. |
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| ▲ | the__alchemist 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| There are advantages to distributed infrastructure as well! You mentioned one of the biggest disadvantages. I am thinking along the line of: - You can just do it / upgrade it etc
- Robust against central failures for various reasons
- Resistant to those in charge of centralized infrastructure abusing their monopoly
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| ▲ | bluGill an hour ago | parent [-] | | Utility solar is also distributed if there is enough of it installed to matter for discussion. A single installation is such a tiny share of the electric load that we can ignore if for all reasons you care about distributed. (or care about solar for that matter - it is a drop in the ocean for the environment) |
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| ▲ | cassianoleal 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Utility-scale solar might be cheaper but doesn't make my house resilient to grid failures. It also only benefits me when the grid is upgraded enough that ... well, it benefits me. |
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| ▲ | gizmo686 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Plug in solar doesn't make your house resilient to grid failures either. You would need an inverter that can generate an AC output without having an existing one to follow; a disconnect to isolate you from the grid during an outage, batteries to smooth the output, an electrician to install it, and an inspection to certify that it was all done correctly. If you are going through all of that, there is not much benefit to plug-in solar instead of traditional. | | |
| ▲ | bryanlarsen an hour ago | parent [-] | | Most of the balcony solar packages already include what you need. They include a battery and on that battery is a receptacle that will supply power if there is no mains. The dogtail that you insert into your house outlet only supplies power if there is mains, but the receptacle on the battery supplies power regardless. So when the power goes out you unplug your fridge from the wall and plug it into the battery. In essence it operates like the standard camping battery/"solar generator", a la Jackery et al. | | |
| ▲ | conductr an hour ago | parent [-] | | To gp’s point, if you’re going through it all just implement it at your panel/subpanel. Mine does auto switch over to power the entire panel and I only know about it from an app notification. Then I can decide if and where I want to power down usage in the house to conserve battery. Having to plug in individual appliances seems to defeat the entire purpose. What happens if you’re away on holiday? Come home to a fridge full of trash? If power is back, do you even know how long the outage lasted? What about other devices that generally should have nonstop power or are typically hardwired? Sump pumps, HVAC equipment, water heaters, etc. | | |
| ▲ | bryanlarsen an hour ago | parent [-] | | Spending $3000 to add auto-switch to a $500 battery is not something most people are going to do. |
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| ▲ | gebruikersnaam 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | These panels do not work without the grid. | | |
| ▲ | gpm 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | (And this is intentional to avoid electrocuting line workers who are working to fix the grid when it breaks) | | |
| ▲ | SoftTalker 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Line workers ground everything before they touch any conductors, except in some cases where they intentionally work "live." | | |
| ▲ | adolph an hour ago | parent [-] | | This is the truth. Aside from solar there are plenty of folks with backup generators that automatically come on whenever grid power fails. When maintenance crews came through my neighborhood to upgrade the old pole fixtures, they grounded out each block to keep any backfeed off what they were working on. |
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| ▲ | Analemma_ 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | No, it's more than that, it's not just a safety feature that you could disable: the plug-in panels need an existing waveform to synchronize to, if the grid is dead they can't produce an AC voltage signal on their own. | | |
| ▲ | gizmo686 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | We know how to make inverters that can produce an AC voltage on their own. It is not particularly difficult or expensive. The reason why we do not put those inverters in plug-in solar units is entirely because we don't want them to have that ability. | | |
| ▲ | bluGill an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Those are a different design inverter than cannot plug into a wall. It isn't hard to design either type, but they need different designs in some critical areas. (you can design one that will do both as well, but it would be more complex) | |
| ▲ | dylan604 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Nobody claimed we didn't know how. You're misunderstanding the point of these panels. |
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| ▲ | ww520 28 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Last I checked the biggest cost in the electric bill is transmission, by a wide margin. Home generated power however small helps everyone. |
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| ▲ | bearjaws an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Problem is for most of USA utility scale = utility profit for share holders. For example Duke is for profit here in Florida, and charges about 25% more per KWH than OUC that is a public utility. This leads to pricing where on one street your power bill is $250, but one street over its $200, often coming from the exact same power plant. |
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| ▲ | smallerize 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'm sure it's cheaper to somebody. But with home solar, I can actually cut my power bill by a noticeable fraction. |
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| ▲ | adrianN an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It is easier to find a million people with a few hundred euros and a sunny balcony than finding one dude with a few hundred million euros and land on which building a solar farm is permitted. |
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| ▲ | freediddy 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It's not and it will NEVER be. Utility companies are not incentivized to lower prices because it means less money for them. Do you remember when power companies told people to conserve power and then people successfully did this? And then they raised rates because they weren't making enough money? This happens in California ALL THE TIME. I've lived here 30 years in Silicon Valley and it's the biggest scam that no one talks about. It happens with electricity and water. With water its even more egregious because they told us to conserve water because of the "drought" but once the drought was over, they raised rates because people weren't using enough water. My connection fee to water is over $100/month without spending a drop of water. That's why I stopped conserving water and water my lawn every single day because it turns out that my water costs are only about 1/3 of the actual water bill costs so fuck it! It's the same playbook over and over again, there's no incentive to lower rates at all because it's an easy way to make money over an entire population of tens of millions of people. Now PG&E is fighting to charge solar panel owners $100+/month just for the privilege of being connected to the grid. That would make having solar panels even more expensive than not having solar panels which is utter hypocrisy but no one seems to care or point this out. It's a complete and utter scam. EDIT: I forgot to mention last year the rates were $0.37-0.45 per kWh, until this year when they implemented a base fee of $25/month, so they lowered it to $0.33-0.45/kWh. Rates in Nevada are 1/4 of that. 2015: $0.17-0.33 per kWh 2020: $0.24-0.38 per kWh so prices have more than doubled in 10 years. Fucking criminals. |
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| ▲ | Kevin_Flynn an hour ago | parent [-] | | I live in Florida, and I'm building a water battery, so I can freeze it at night when electricity rates are cheap, and use it to cool the house during the day. The day after the system goes live, they'll probably announce flat rates for any time of day, just to f' with me. :( |
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| ▲ | fred_is_fred an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Where I live we have Time of Day electricity pricing where the prices jump 2-3x during high demand. Panels conveniently produce the most power around this time, so this can save people money. |
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| ▲ | delichon 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| We should build now in anticipation of drone warfare. Utility-scale solar is easier to take out. Same as natural disasters. The more stable you think the future will be, the more you want to capture the efficiency of central power. |
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| ▲ | bronco21016 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | By that logic literally everything should be distributed. That's going to be a big undertaking to re-architect our entire civilian infrastructure against that. I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, I just don't see society taking that measure until it's either 1) cheaper, or 2) the threat moves from being just a threat to reality. | | |
| ▲ | delichon 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > 2) the threat moves from being just a threat to reality. Completely agree. But I'm already there. Large scale economic disruption has just started. For that to remain peaceful over the next few decades would be a miracle. So we should plan for disruption, for which energy decentralization is a keystone, and the technology to make it practical is here. California has a 600 MW Virtual Power Plant composed of Tesla Powerwall batteries in 85k homes. Central control of distributed generation removes a lot of inefficiencies. Household excess is available to the whole system. | | |
| ▲ | freediddy 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Has no one been paying attention to how Ukraine/Russia and now Iran has been targeting civilian infrastructure? All of Spain's electricity was down last year from a cyberattack. This is completely a new line of threat that we need to address. |
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