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▲ elimgta 6 hours ago

Great! More news like this

Maybe this would remind ordinary russians that killing innocent civilians every day in Kyiv is not good

▲nomilk 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> remind ordinary Russians

Ordinary Russians think the war's bad too. Only difference is you and I can say that without getting 15 years in a (very harsh) prison.

▲kpil 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm not totally sure about that.

Maybe Russians outside Russia.

Of course almost everyone thinks war is bad, but many seem to think it's justified - different thing.

There seem to be a wide support for the idea that Russia is threatened (economically and to an extent military) by the global West, and also that Ukraine is not entitled to be independent and also many of the official lies about the background.

Good lies have a nugget of truth in them, and this is the case also here.

Russia's economy is not growing (compared to EU, US), fertility rate is down, the revolution in Ukraine undermines the stability of the Russian regime, the attempted coup in Belarus was also a threat, NATO is arguably expanding - lately as a reaction to the war but nonetheless, EU is expanding into post-Soviet states both offering membership but also trade agreements which undercut Russia's ambition to be an economical hub in the region, etc.

▲xtracto 30 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

It's like Americans thinking thar what their president is doing is right. Nobody in there is doing anything to stop it.

▲nomilk 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Often, both are true. It's perfectly legitimate for anyone (Russian or otherwise) to have geo-political concerns (e.g. NATO expansion, Cuban missile crisis etc), but a Russian concerned about NATO expansion may also be very opposed to the extreme option of war as a solution.

War affects an ordinary Russian in very negative ways: the possibility of conscription (w/ risk of injury/death), complications for travel, sanctions on goods and services, and the economic opportunity cost (money wasted on war that could have gone to productive uses, plus reduced economic output due to drone strikes on yandex, wildberries, refineries).

▲killerstorm 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Russia could fully integrate into EU/NATO if it really wanted.

That's just not compatible with ambitions of its corrupt leaders who want to be a root-level player, not "one of NATO countries". And I'm not sure how legitimate is prioritization of wants of corrupt leaders over well-being of your compatriots.

▲jacquesm an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Unsurprisingly, the same motivates the current crop of leadership in the US. They stopped teaching history in school I guess.

▲RuslanL 22 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

They have asked to be a part of nato twice around 2000th and were both times rejected.

▲killerstorm 7 minutes ago | parent [-]

NATO is not something you can just apply to on a whim. The path for a membership was there: e.g. there were some joint exercises, etc. Obviously they also need political integration as well.

Russia actually have been a member of Council of Europe (PACE, etc.) since 1996 but it was expelled in 2022. If they had a good record in Council of Europe they could really go for NATO membership eventually.

▲formvoltron an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

imagine if Putin had said... we are slipping behind the west. They are threatening us. So... we'll double down on research & education. We'll outthink them. We'll shift our economy into an economy that thrives in the future.

▲SEJeff 24 minutes ago | parent [-]

Pretty much precisely what the US did during the Cold War. To do so, we had to outspend the Soviets, and by a LOT. But the world buying US treasury bonds was basically a credit card for us to finance the above things that result into the world’s strongest military.

▲killerstorm 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ordinary Russians think "yeah war sucks, I wish Ukraine surrenders so peace can be restored". I'm afraid only a tiny minority believes Russia needs to surrender.

▲Lio 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It’s worth pointing out that Russia doesn’t need to “surrender” to stop the war. It just needs to withdraw.

That’s not surrender because Russia started this invasion without provocation. It wasn’t under attack and Ukraine hadn’t joined NATO.

Russia had no reason to invade except as a show of force.

If Putin suddenly declared he’d met his objectives and withdrew who’s to say otherwise?

▲conmod278 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

When the pager attack happened, there was a implicity sentiment on focusing on the technical details and not focus on politics. But I didn't see the same sentiment when Iran ballistic missles did their job.

▲preisschild an hour ago | parent [-]

Irans BMs primarily targeted cities, the pager attacks resulted in a lot less civilian casualties

▲brabel 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Does anyone really believe Russia will eventually just surrender and leave? I can’t imagine the rationale to believe that. When Putin leaves all indications are that the next leader will actually be much more hawkish. They will only leave if someone bombs them to death. Which is quite a dangerous thing to do. Ukraine is pushing the limits, and everyone knows it’s with the help of many EU countries. I wonder what it will take for Russia to reach desperate measures in this war.

▲simondotau an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Russia have been taking desperate measures for years. The only thing they haven’t done is use nukes, which Russia can’t use without consequences that vastly outweigh the benefits.

▲kolinko 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They left Afghanistan. Also, Imdon’t see Ukraine giving up any time soon either.

▲killerstorm 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I see no reason why they can't agree on a truce: Russia haven't gained any meaningful ground for a while. A truce or even a peace treaty would be strictly beneficial to Russia.

▲ivan_gammel an hour ago | parent [-]

Any outcome short of surrender of Ukraine is an enormous headache for Putin that will likely cost him and his system dearly. They simply cannot, or they will be dead. Why? Because a million of veterans coming back and telling the stories will ask this question: „Why?“ The „Nazis“ are still in Kiev, the NATO is coming, what we got is just thousands of kilometers of ruins, what for was that? The war keeps them busy, for now. The situation is worse for Ukraine than for Russia, so it may feel like they can go on and actually win.

The same can be actually said about Zelensky, for whom any concessions to Russia mean political death too. If Ukraine loses territories forever, people will ask, why so many had to die for that. What was the plan. And blaming the West (which won‘t be 100% justified) will not help. And he may feel that now he is applying good pressure too, with those drone strikes and knocked out refineries.

▲bamboozled 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For the time being.

▲rcMgD2BwE72F 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Are they physically forced to vote for Putin? And how widespread is the electoral fraud?

▲stratos123 a few seconds ago | parent | next [-]

[delayed]

▲RuslanL 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Well, some decades ago if you were a school teacher, you were _asked_ to (1) vote "right" yourself (2) call all parents and ask them to vote "right". If you disobeyed, the school got problems and you got problems. Maybe not enough to make all people comply, but sufficient to get the right outcomes. Same goes for all government-funded workers.

Since then I think they simplified the system and just forge the results outright.

▲nomilk 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This is informative https://politics.stackexchange.com/a/27658/25206

tl;dr Other parties are Putin-like, and if/when a genuine alternative emerges, Putin deals with them ruthlessly. Example: Navalny was the charismatic leader of a small but popular rival party with anti-corruption policies. He was initially delegitimised (not allowed to partake in the 2018 elections due to [likely fake] charges of embezzlement), then poisoned (nearly died), then imprisoned, and then killed while in prison.

Consider the terrifying message that sends to would-be political rivals...

▲KingOfCoders 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

40.000 - 100.000 dead civilians.

Estimate range is big because lots of civilians died in cities that ended up occupied.

▲schleck8 6 hours ago | parent [-]

What is this number referring to? When I google it I only find chechen war, gaza, and US gun deaths annually

▲squidbeak 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Mariupol's civilian casualties are hard to establish. Some of the upper estimates [1] run to 100,000 killed. Over just a couple of months.

[1] https://meduza.io/en/feature/2023/10/06/i-m-used-to-walking-...

▲KingOfCoders 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The number is referring to the post I replied to:

"innocent civilians every day in Kyiv is not good".

Estimations for how many civilians Russians killed in Chechnya range from 45,000 to 80,000.

▲debugnik 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They were asking for a reference/source, not to be treated like an idiot.

▲KingOfCoders 6 hours ago | parent [-]

"What is this number referring to?"

Does not sound like looking for a source, but I'm not a native speaker.

▲IshKebab 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I am. You are correct.

▲ 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
▲jazzyjackson 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I suppose they’re mixing up deaths with injuries

  From the start of Russia’s full-scale invasion in February 2022 to December 2025, 14,999 Ukrainian civilians were killed and 40,601 injured, according to the United Nations Human Rights Monitoring Mission in Ukraine (HRMMU).
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2026/country-chapters/ukrai...
▲beernet 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> And of course not a word about the people in Russia killed by Ukranians (Kursk region and daily killings by drones, of civilians, which the west is "not aware of").

Russia could stop this invasion any time and not a single Russian would be hurt. Pure Kreml propaganda on HN, how sad.

▲Stitch4223 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I’m not able to find this citation in the human rights watch link you reply to, nor elsewhere on this page nor the Yandex page.

Are we looking at the same thing? Was it deleted somewhere?

▲testaccount28 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

i mean, presumably so could ukraine?

▲cluckindan 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yes, capitulate to the attacker. Cease to exist as a country, nation, people, culture. Presumably that is an option!

▲Lio an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Where Russia was forced out of Ukraine they left behind mass civilian graves. Bodies found with hands tied behind their backs, shot in the back of the head.

Surrendering to Russia does not bring peace to Ukraine only more suffering.

They have to fight on, Russia does not.

▲masfuerte 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If Ukraine ceased military activity, why do you think Russia wouldn't continue their invasion?

▲KingOfCoders 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How could Ukraine stop the Russian invasion?

▲walterlw 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

and be overrun by soldiers who kill civilians with drones, rape and pillage? No thanks

▲KingOfCoders 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

1) The invasion started at least in 2014 (you could argue before that)

2) The UN estimate is considered on the low end because it looks into confirmed deaths while many civilians were killed in cities that became occupied and we have no numbers from there.

▲crabbone 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The highest, by far, death numbers come from Mariupol. It's a city close to the Russian border that was attacked very early in the war, but didn't surrender quickly like most other cities in the South. The estimates are somewhere close to 25K dead in this city alone. Civilians were unable to evacuate, and it was the time when Russia had plenty of resources, especially artillery munitions to expend and their tactics were to do massive artillery bombardment (often with rocket artillery) before massive motorized assault. So, lack of precision, or as some jokingly call it "accuracy through saturation".

Since Mariupol fell to Russia, they never counted the dead. There are horror stories of the bodies not being buried for month after surrender, and in some cases, Russians simply pawed over the places with many dead (a prominent example is the theater in the city center, but there were more).

The numbers you are quoting are the "counted" ones. Mariupol, Sieverodonetsk, Kherson, saw a lot of deaths that were never counted.

Sorry to bring another conflict into the picture, but it's useful to illustrate the point. In Gaza, the "health ministry" used a different "technique" to count the dead. Normally, to establish that someone died, there has to be a qualified medical professional at the scene, they also have to get a hold of identifying documents (or else, they will be counted as "John/Jane Doe", but in the morgue, much later). In some "special" cases a non-medical professional may record a death (they are usually defined using the language like "the head is more than 50 cm away from the rest of the body" etc.) But they switched to "incorporating reports from the news sources" (i.e. if some newspaper reported X people killed in some event, they just added X to the tally).

After the front line stabilized in Ukraine, they had no reason (or excuse) to count their civilian casualties in the way Gaza administration did, so, they never incorporated those who were never properly reported. And that's why we have a relatively "low" numbers. If Ukraine is ever able to regain control of the territory captured after 2022, these numbers are bound to go much, much higher, as they will have to deal with eg. property ownership and would have to either declare the previous owners as deceased, or actually find them.

▲troupo 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's likely much higher considering the completely destroyed cities and towns. E.g. Mariupol had a population of 450 000 before the war.

▲whatdouthink 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

▲AndyPa32 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You may not want to hear this, but this came down on you the day russian troups entered a sovereign country, the day your missiles attacked a sovereign country.

Slava Ukraini!

The audacity of those bots these days.

▲whatdouthink 4 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

▲monkey_monkey 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> which means that this comment will have a very short life (if at all).

A bit like some of the conscripted Ruzzian orcs, eh?

▲KingOfCoders 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

"the causes of war"

Simple, Putin talked about this for decades, you can read about it:

The goal is the re-establishment of the Russian empire in it's largest borders, beginning with his massacres in Chechnya and the invasion of Georgia.

▲ 2 hours ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
▲hasley 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Your country started the war murdering thousands of Ukrainians. So, what do you expect?

▲whatdouthink 4 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

▲KingOfCoders 2 hours ago | parent [-]

"Ukranians were murdering Russian people in Donbass"

Russia settled Russians in Ukraine to control/destroy it for decades (like in the Baltics, Georgia and in many different places, the usual Russian tactic). Then Russia instigated a civil war in Ukraine and finally invaded Ukraine in 2014, so there were fights in Donbass back then with deaths (Russia also shot down a Malaysian plane in 2014 from Donbass).

"Your weapons are murdering Russian civilians right now, but you don't care, why?"

Because those Russian civilians voted and supported a dictator who wanted and wants to invade Europe and re-enslave the population. And Russians loved it, they loved it plundering and murdering and torturing people in Europe before and they will again.

Russia encouraged Serbs to start WW1 because Russians wanted to invade Europe through their puppets on the Balkans, later invaded Europe in 1939 in a joint military operation with the Nazis/Germans and will do so again whenever Russians see the chance to do so.

I would prefer no war but a big wall, mile deep minefields and drone/ballistic/SDI defenses instead to keep Russians out and stop them from invading Europe again, but I guess Russia needs to first lose this war to make this a reality.

▲KingOfCoders 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"Russian civilians are killed daily by the Ukranian drones"

Looks like Ukrainians don't believe in "turn to him the other cheek".

▲whatdouthink 3 hours ago | parent [-]

If (if..) you have at least the decency to admit what the situation really is (though of course not what - or who - led to it, that would be too much for you), then you are at least not completely out of touch with reality.

▲KingOfCoders 2 hours ago | parent [-]

The situation is Russians invaded Ukraine, murdered, plundered, tortured and raped Ukrainians, and then Ukrainians, instead of dropping dead like everyone expected, fought back.

What led to it? Putin wanting to re-establish the Russian empire as he said and wrote many times about.

It's a mystery to me, Hitler wrote exactly what he wanted to do, he did it and people were surprised. Putin wrote exactly what he wanted to do, he did it and people were surprised. A mystery.

▲walterlw 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Clarification: Starlink does not operate within Russia. If it did there would be fewer civilian casualties as drones would be guided to the actual targets. Civilian casualties are always a tragedy, it's just that russians don't care about them anymore - malls, transport hubs etc are targeted during the day. Putin explicitly says he wants us to freeze during winter and his propagandists cry for frontline cities as well as Kyiv, Kharkiv and others to be bombed into oblivion.

▲simondotau an hour ago | parent [-]

Starlink operating beyond areas of Ukraine control is a double-edged sword for Ukraine, as we saw in recent history where Russia was using smuggled Starlink terminals for their own military comms.

▲RealityVoid 42 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yes, and they used whitelists/blacklists and it worked. But at the rate things are going I would not be surprised to see direct US assistance to Russia at some point in the future.

▲ 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
▲Muromec 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Sakhalin and Kamchatka are safe I heard.

▲KingOfCoders 4 hours ago | parent [-]

For now.

▲whatdouthink 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

▲raverbashing 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Also helps with removing bots from X (to much of Elon's disagreement)

▲enaaem 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I remember that during the Wagner rebellion there was a 24h-48h time frame of no Russian bot activities. Was kinda surreal.

▲TheOtherHobbes 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Prigozhin was one of Putin's chief botmasters. He helped set up the Internet Research Agency, which was one of Russia's biggest troll farms.

▲miroljub 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

▲schleck8 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

US-owned datacenters in the middle east were already blown up with the drone family that Russia has been mass-procuring from Iran

▲hasley 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

One goal is probably to show average Russians that the war is not just something which happens somewhere else in the world - a side-note on the news, no need to bother about.

The question why people who do not agree with the government should also pay the price for a war started by their government/country is not specific to this war.

▲miroljub an hour ago | parent [-]

So you want to show it to Russians but not Americans? Why? USA is the nation responsible for most destruction post WW2 around the world, Russia is not even close.

▲jeltz 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You mean exactly like Iran did?

▲miroljub an hour ago | parent [-]

Iran destroyed data centres in the USA?

I missed that in news. Can you point to the source?

▲toomuchtodo 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The best the world can do is move away from US treasuries (redirecting that capital investment domestically) and importing from the US, causing long term economic decline. This applies the pain broadly to the US electorate who voted for this.

▲Muromec 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why do you make it sound like a rhetorical question?

▲victorbjorklund 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

AWS was already struck by Iranians.

▲altmanaltman 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You make it seem as if they are not active targets for many. Its just really, really hard to attack a datacenter in the US with a ballistic missile. Israel gets hit pretty regularly as well.

The beautiful thing about US war is that it never gets back home. The moment it starts, the populance starts pulling back support. But if you are shooting random people in the desert and middletown nowhere's McDonald's are functioning, its all gravy.

▲microtonal 5 hours ago | parent [-]

The beautiful thing about US war is that it never gets back home.

Have you checked the diesel prices?

▲altmanaltman 2 hours ago | parent [-]

High diesel prices are not equivalent to getting your cities bombed every day. Imagine going to work but having to divert because some country bombed the highway. That is the reality for countries usually at war with the US, but not for the US, where you have the liberty to go like, "Hey, this war is kind of bad" after watching diesel prices, not after watching Uncle Jamal's head get blown off.

▲hoholrapist 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

▲flexagoon 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Завтра в школу дружище отдохни