| ▲ | rsyring 3 hours ago |
| Very insightful blog post listed by another user as a sub-comment. Worth posting as a top-level comment: https://blog.ppb1701.com/the-quiet-renovation-at-bitwarden Previously discussed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48163389 |
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| ▲ | nugget 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Great find. This blog post - and specifically the background of the new management team - convinced me to start looking for a Bitwarden alternative. I’m watching the same “boil the frog” strategy unfold at Namecheap, and erode much of the brand trust they had built up over a decade, and it’s a shame. |
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| ▲ | turtletontine 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Have you settled on a BitWarden alternative, or a short list you’re considering? | | |
| ▲ | birksherty an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Proton Pass. I stopped using Bitwarden for a different reason, the mobile app was too slow when not connected to internet. I can't accept such slowness, the company will definitely give justifications for this. But I don't care, let me see my passwords or notes for a website immediately. Proton Pass is better in this regard. | | |
| ▲ | doodlesdev an hour ago | parent [-] | | Proton Pass cannot be self-hosted. | | |
| ▲ | sliken 43 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | As as self-hoster, I recommend vault warden. Supports 2fa, written in rust, works pretty well, is easy to backup, and you can use bitwarden's phone client. I'm curious why other self hosters think it's a bad idea. | |
| ▲ | missmewiththatl an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | As a self-hoster, I don't think password managers should be self-hosted. | | |
| ▲ | tappio 29 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I don't see much reason not to self-host a properly built password manager like Vaultwarden or something similar? The clients keep a local encrypted copy of the vault, so the server only needs to be up for syncing. If it went down for a week, you probably wouldn't even notice unless you were saving new logins. And even if the server got hacked, everything on it is encrypted. Why do you think it should not be selfhosted? | |
| ▲ | Oxodao an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | On the contrary. If there's one thing you should self-host is definetly password manager. | |
| ▲ | jazzyjackson 21 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Can’t relate. If you’re worried about you’re own reliability to keep it online, just keep paper backups | |
| ▲ | cortesoft an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | What? Why not? | | |
| ▲ | torzer321 16 minutes ago | parent [-] | | password managers should not involve hosting at all, use something file-local, keepass(xc) or alike |
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| ▲ | an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | jazzyjackson 22 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What’s wrong with self hosted vaultwarden ? I guess there isn’t a FLOSS extension client/app? | |
| ▲ | backlit4034 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | GlassDoors reveal the other side of the story https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Bitwarden-Reviews-E4337610... | | |
| ▲ | alt227 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Wow, another site that now refuses to play ball unless you sign in. Guess I'll never be visiting Glass Door again then. | | |
| ▲ | to11mtm an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | GlassDoor has been gross about this for years. Not sure if still the case but normally you have to not only 'sign in' but also feed them information (e.x. salary at a position, write a review, etc.) in order to be able to view much of anything. They also do not give a shit about obvious 'juicing' (i.e. when it is obvious that upper management and/or HR is adding reviews where the 'con' reads like one of those softball warning phrases in a job description.) | | |
| ▲ | encom an hour ago | parent [-] | | This is the fate of every online review site. Every single one. Including IMDB as I realised yesterday while trying to find something to watch. The most egregious example I've found was that the Danish postal service had something like a 4,8/5,0 rating on Trustpilot. You'll be hard pressed to find a more inept, corrupt and universally hated company. So in an attempt to improve their public image, they decided to game the ratings, instead of actually delivering mail properly. |
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| ▲ | happosai an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | With the AI(?) bots doing a DDOS on on public websites via residential proxies the future is all website will require login. | |
| ▲ | chanux an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I can kind if understand how forcing everyone to add on to the pile of content, from a business point of view. However they may have proved that they are indeed.. trash. Maybe even a few times. One such case was https://www.forrester.com/blogs/glassdoors-mishandling-of-cu... In my eyes they are in the same class of Facebook, uservoice, Pinterest, Quora etc. | |
| ▲ | skeptic_ai 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] |
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| ▲ | latchkey 23 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | it goes into an infinite redirect loop for me. lol. |
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| ▲ | axelthegerman an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Thank you for linking this, the price increase was indeed communicated to me directly via email but not very clearly > The price is updating to $1.65/month, billed annually. Followed by a 25% discount for this reveal only. Have to go back to my old invoice to see it was $10/y and now the new one $19.80/y I never liked that I needed to pay premium just for 2FA but this abuse of trust is definitely the end of it. Too bad I won't get a refund for my Oct 1st renewal but I'll happily cancel as soon as I get vaultwarden hosted. |
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| ▲ | theturtletalks an hour ago | parent [-] | | SSO is the feature many companies put behind their most expensive plans. It's exactly why the personal software revolution will take over SaaS. The argument here is always why would people spend all this time and money to build custom software when they can just pay a company $20-100 bucks a month? Because that product will become enshittified. It's not a question of if, its a question of when. I thought open-source SaaS would be immune, but clearly not. | | |
| ▲ | TeMPOraL 44 minutes ago | parent [-] | | SaaS is what killed open source. "OSS SaaS" is just the resurrected undead abominations that somehow manage to trick the peasants and pass off as living. If you excuse a Warcraft-y metaphor. |
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| ▲ | microflash an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This post is what triggered me to cancel my subscription and migrate away from Bitwarden in July. I’ve seen too many repeats of this show. This has completely soured me from cloud-backed critical software. Slowly moving toward offline alternatives wherever possible and self-hosting when it isn’t. |
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| ▲ | Aardwolf 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Ok this is doing some damage. What's a possible alternative that works on both mobile and desktop, doesn't require yourself to run a server, and doesn't have worse reputation? |
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| ▲ | terminalbraid 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | keepassxc works across any major platform, mobile platforms have keepass2android and KeePassium. You don't have to run your own server, but you do need some type of file sharing system to keep them synced. I personally run a webdav share on a vps with some sync scripts to keep a backup on devices otherwise. OneDrive, google drive, dropbox, and others work. Also protonpass. | | |
| ▲ | Arrowmaster 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I specifically moved away from KeePassXC to Bitwarden with self hosted vaultwarden because the Linux desktop experience and mobile syncing was so terrible. While I love KeePassXC, using it on an immutable Linux distro where everything needs to be Flatpak means the browser extension doesn't work because it doesn't support Flatpak'd browsers back when I switched. Auto type is a security nightmare and is not an option. Syncing does not exist and with the constant death and forking of Syncthing on Android, it became unusable to randomly find out my db hasn't synced for a week and now I have to reset everything with a new fork yet again. Bitwarden was the no nonsense choice because it just worked. | | |
| ▲ | philsnow an hour ago | parent [-] | | I used to use gnupass and its variants (including passforios on mobile), but what brought me to bitwarden was being able to make changes on two clients and merge the results cleanly / usefully without needing to do anything manually at all. How does this work with keepassxc? Does it depend on your file syncing primitive? | | |
| ▲ | Arrowmaster an hour ago | parent [-] | | When I stopped using KeePassXC, there was no merging. You configured each client to save immediately and reload when detecting the file changed. If you used a tool like Syncthing then you had to monitor for conflicts (which stopped syncing) and manually fix them. If the major clients on Linux, Android, and browser extensions all supported proper syncing on their own, I might switch back. |
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| ▲ | GordonS 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Any good reason to use keepassxc rather than regular KeePass? | | |
| ▲ | tkuraku 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | https://keepassxc.org/docs/#faq-keepass | |
| ▲ | qwerpy 35 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | At the time I decided to go with regular keepass, it was because setting up OneDrive sync (directly to OneDrive, not depending on a mapped folder because I use as little MS software as possible) and browser extension was easier. And the cross platform UI on KeePassXC just didn’t look and feel good on windows. | | |
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| ▲ | whynotmaybe an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Keepass on pc, keepass2android on mobile and the file is stored on onedrive. I'm starting to use macos so I'll install onedrive on it. Now onedrive's reputation is Microsoft's but I haven't heard of massive security breaches like many online password manager had. | |
| ▲ | Lapel2742 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Proton Pass? I already have "Proton Unlimited" as a subscription but until now I never used Proton Pass. I thought about giving up on Bitwarden for some time and probably will try it now. AFAIK you can even import your Bitwarden logins. | | |
| ▲ | mpern an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | FWIW I moved to Proton Pass after I read the blog post months ago. The switch was seamless except for passkeys (had to enroll new ones; back then I only found a tool to convert Proton Pass passkeys to Bitwarden, but not the other way around) For me, Pass works much better, especially passkeys on Android. Bitwarden was very flaky in that regard, Proton Pass "just works". I use Pass for personal logins and sharing family-related accounts with my wife. | |
| ▲ | rpozarickij 43 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'm really happy that Proton Pass provides an option to copy the username/password when you right click on an item. In the Bitwarden macOS app you have to click a dedicated copying button which feels so unintuitive and I had to consciously think about this every time I needed to copy a username/password. And Bitwarden has so many other things that could be improved in its UI, but due to muscle memory I forgot that there exist other password managers out there. So far Proton Pass seems to be much more polished than Bitwarden. Except it took me a while to find how to enable 2FA, which is in "Account and password" (not "Security and privacy") in the account settings. | |
| ▲ | InsideOutSanta 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I think Proton Pass is currently the best non-self-hosted option, and Proton's corporate structure offers some protection against enshittification. | |
| ▲ | gabe-santana an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | frevib an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Proton pass. Proton ticks all good-company boxes. E2ee, majority owned by the Proton foundation, all client-side code is OSS, and some other structures in place to protect themselves from corp greed. Best I could find. | | |
| ▲ | sylos an hour ago | parent [-] | | Didn't it recently come out that the ceo of proton was donating to far right groups interested in dismantling privacy and security, let alone their racist policies? | | |
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| ▲ | TeMPOraL 42 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Writing password down on paper and keeping them in your wallet. Seriously. About as secure, if you're honest about the actual threat model (vs one security aficionados would like you to assume), and paper can't be enshittified. | | | |
| ▲ | orta 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I like Enpass |
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| ▲ | Cort3z 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I hate this. So much software I love keeps doing this. redis, docker, now bitwarden. I was so happy with bitwarden. Been a premium subscriber for many years. I have helped convert many people, including whole companies, to use this. Now they are doing us such a disservice. We need a completely free, no-nonsence, alternative. I wonder if it is possible to do a ipfs/torrent version without a central authority to permanently prevent this type of issue. |
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| ▲ | atomicUpdate 35 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Why stop at a free password manager? Why not free food, clothes, cars, and everything else while you’re making demands? Or is it just software that has zero value to you because it’s intangible and you intentionally ignore the time and effort other people spend on it? | |
| ▲ | parineum 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I still use docker and redis for free and it seems like I'll be able to continue using bitwarden for free. I don't see what I've lost. | |
| ▲ | zackmorris an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | I wonder that too, perhaps by encrypting the data with a key generated from a long passphrase meaningful to the user, that nobody could possibly guess. Then just store the data in a permanent cloud like IPFS, pinned with 4EVERLAND, Filebase and/or Pinata: https://docs.ipfs.tech/concepts/persistence/#pinning-service... Maybe someone could write a provably private client-based browser decryption script, hosted on various websites. We might need a new browser spec that sandboxes pages until they're unsandboxed, allowing them no egress/ingress or even local storage or cookies. Or better yet, take that choice away from browser vendors, and create a runtime in the browser that simply can't be observed, perhaps by using zero-knowledge proofs. Writing this out, I wonder if the issue is due to longstanding incomplete browser architecture, going back to when the web went mainstream in the mid-1990s. Or maybe it's still just an open problem. Solve private distributed durable storage, along with a base level of secret computation eventually running about the speed of a 6502, 286 or 68000, and we wouldn't need free services that inevitably get privatized and ensh!ttified. I have no idea if something like this already exists, I'm just speculating as to what base functionality it might need from first principles. Also I wonder if similar techniques could be recruited to build an OS around cryptocurrency. That way a meta economy could run alongside the corrupt economy, and shield users from currency devaluation and other wealth inequality drivers used by the ultra-wealthy to increase the value of the means of production that they own relatively, so that they can buy more. Arguably the process of wealth concentration is so fundamental that it puts a countdown on capitalism, driving it towards the late-stage capitalism that we've had since about 1970 when productivity diverged from wages, and eventually revolution which results in socialism/communism or even permanent authoritarian dystopia like on Star Wars. In a way, it's in the best interests of the ultra-wealthy to build meta economies, which of course makes those economies suspect and probably vulnerable to exploits, especially in the AI age. We've seen how crypto has created black markets capable of capturing governments, so maybe we should be careful what we wish for. But really I just don't want to type my password anymore. |
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| ▲ | alt227 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I feel like this blog post deserves its own submission to HN |
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| ▲ | dizhn 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Started humany but degraded into LLM speak towards the end. Especial the Vaultwarden section. |
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| ▲ | stavros 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It's all LLMese, start to finish. I found it hard to get through. Could have just been a bulleted list and it would have been better. | | | |
| ▲ | wegwerper an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [dead] | |
| ▲ | alt227 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | So? It was useful information, who cares how it was written. | | |
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| ▲ | Wowfunhappy 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Unfortunately, any "insight" it might contain is ruined by the fact it's clearly written by an LLM instead of a person. > And it never comes in a single dramatic announcement. It comes in layers. A feature post with a price change inside it. A LinkedIn update nobody made a press release about. A values page that says something slightly different than it did last week. If you’re still on Bitwarden cloud and this is giving you pause — it should. [...] Whether self-hosting stays viable long-term is the real question worth sitting with. |