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▲ wepple 2 hours ago

This is an interesting shift compared to the past where OpenAI would’ve been public a long time ago (due to various regulations) so we would have much more direct insight.

Right now we have a ~$1 trillion company which a ton of the “economy” and valuations are based on, with near zero information on how it’s doing.

▲gizajob 23 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

It’s because this IPO is backed by those who grew up through the boom and bust of the dotcom era, so they know now to do all their growth in secret behind the scenes and then dump onto the market when there’s nothing more in that tank. Rather than letting the public have any major growth out of their baby, and only letting the price discovery phase work one way.

▲Quinner 10 minutes ago | parent [-]

I agree with you and the parent comment, but to be fair to VC, they're also assuming risk. For example, if Wework had IPO'd earlier the public would've been holding the bag instead of private investors.

▲gizajob 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Kind of agree but their risk is actually spreading through the entire system, as today shows.

▲clickety_clack 6 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

If they had IPO’d earlier there probably would have been better oversight of the excesses.

▲combobyte 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> zero information on how it’s doing

I think the fact that we have so little information is the most important information we have. If OpenAI had a sound business plan and was on strong financial footing, they'd have IPO'd.

All of this continued stalling and obfuscation can only mean one thing, IMO: OpenAI has no long-term viability and they're desperately hoping for some new breakthrough to reinvent their business model before the VC money faucets turn off for good.

▲dpkirchner an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> If OpenAI had a sound business plan and was on strong financial footing, they'd have IPO'd.

OTOH, if a company has a sound business plan and strong financial footing it may not need to IPO -- unless the founders or VCers want out ASAP.

▲Ekaros 17 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

At scale that OpenAI is valued at public markets are only place with enough of liquidity. At smaller scale private equity is an option. But if you are speaking of near trillion scale it really is not.

▲socializer an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They do because the other part of the equation is that they need to keep spending a lot of money to build out infrastructure faster than their two most significant competitors, one of which is public and wildly profitable (for non-AI reasons) and another has already filed for IPO. So it puts them at a disadvantage to walk away from a massive cash infusion.

▲spott 18 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I think the answer is simply that private money is cheaper than public money for these companies right now.

OpenAI hasn’t had any problems getting impressive amounts of funding. So why ipo?

▲socializer 4 minutes ago | parent [-]

Two reasons. First, there's more money in the public markets, and Altman's appetite seems insatiable (he's the one who's been calling for gigantic, government-sponsored "Manhattan Project" efforts related to AI); and second, public money comes with fewer strings attached - private investors want protections, board seats, etc.

▲ 27 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
▲ForHackernews 19 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The investors need to make a couple trillion dollars soon or it all falls apart, right? Maybe I misunderstand how the financing for this works, but my understanding is they have borrowed and set on fire an enormous pile of money as a sacrifice to summon the Machine-God.

If He fails to arrive, or arrives late, they will be the railroad financiers in the Panic of '73.

▲Aurornis an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't know why comments pointing out this simple fact are getting downvoted.

The oversimplified view that has been drilled into startup discussions for years has been that IPO is the singular goal for every startup and they need to get there as fast as possible, but that hasn't been true for a long while. There are high profile examples like Stripe with no intent to go public any time soon. Some public companies are even gradually doing share buybacks partially to remove their public exposure.

Being a public company kind of sucks in many ways. I'll admit my sample size is small, but every post-IPO CEO I've known has expressed some regrets about going public. It was a fascinating revelation to me after being raised on the idea that IPO is the ultimate victory goal of every startup.

▲freecodeio 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

lol but they're trying to IPO, it's what sam altman has been talking about for the past 2 years? Are you saying you know something better about sam altman than his public opinions?

▲sodapopcan 34 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm guessing downvotes are not because people don't understand that this happens, but because based on OpenAI's words and actions it is highly unlikely that this is what they are doing. Also, Stripe has been confirmed to be profitable.

▲watwut 28 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

I understand it as IPO is the ultimate victory for investors. They finally get their reward, sell in the overpriced moment and can go their merry way.

▲SoftTalker an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

VCs always want out when they've made their return. They are not in the business of owning companies for income.

▲vkou an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

The founders and VCs can shell shares to private investors, it's the employees who are sitting on options who get fucked.

Whatever private-market liquidity events they will be permitted to participate in will be highly disadvantaged compared to the other two groups.

▲besterman23 32 minutes ago | parent [-]

Unhinged conspiracy, if you take the implicit goals of AI research orgs at face value (I.e., replacing all knowledge work) and assume it possible; why would they drag a few thousand knowledge workers along to the promised land when they can just shed them after their usefulness has worn out?

What does adding a few more suckers to the pile of tens of millions of other suckers do to those that get the real benefits? It’s not like after they achieve their goals, the people who helped them would have the ramp or resources to recreate the process.

▲lenerdenator 2 minutes ago | parent [-]

That then begs the question of whether there's any promised land at all after all knowledge work is replaced.

If you've made tens of millions of people unemployed over the timeline of a few years, then you no longer have nearly the market to sell goods and services - including your AI - to.

Assuming these guys answer that with "let's make UBI" - which is a huge assumption given the way SV fetishizes those who "create value" and looks down upon those who don't - you now basically have tech feudalism. The remaining upper crust "generously" pays the rest of the population enough to not starve until they die.

You'll basically have an entire society in stasis, with no hope of improving their lot, being given the bare minimum to keep humans alive, if that. Well, no hope of peacefully improving their lot.

It won't be a promised land at that point.

▲Aurornis an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> OpenAI has no long-term viability and they're desperately hoping for some new breakthrough to reinvent their business model before the VC money faucets turn off for good.

If a startup is riding a hype cycle and is one of two leaders in the global industry with unreal growth numbers, they can IPO whenever they want. The incentives lean toward doing an IPO before the hype runs out, not delaying it.

If they were worried about running out of VC money, going to the public (the P in IPO) would be the move.

Companies don't actually have to go public quickly or even at all, even though that's been drilled into us as the only goal of every investor-backed startup.

▲SwellJoe an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Which is why Spacex was so rushed, and why they insisted on new rules for early exits and inclusion in the Nasdaq 100 index.

I'm not certain OpenAI or Anthropic have a viable business, either, but Spacex definitely pulled a massive scam.

▲Tanjreeve an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> If they were worried about running out of VC money, going to the public (the P in IPO) would be the move.

Yes? They were geared up for IPO this year until pushing it back. See all the marketing shenanigans around solving mathematics for this month's flavour. They have a balancing act to manage between the hype and the reality of the business.

▲parthdesai an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I think the fact that we have so little information is the most important information we have. If OpenAI had a sound business plan and was on strong financial footing, they'd have IPO'd.

What about Stripe?

▲surgical_fire 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The same is true for Anthropic, by the way.

▲runako an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Anthropic likely would not be saying, in October, that they planned to go public next month, if this were also true of their business.

In the last ~month, OpenAI announced a delay to its IPO and Anthropic put a relatively near-term range on its IPO date. These are very different signals.

▲combobyte 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yep, I agree. The only 'frontier' any of the big labs are racing towards is the frontier of financial ruin.

▲pianopatrick 21 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Well there certainly is at least some kind of viable business running large AI models for a fee.

These are useful and too big to run locally.

The ultimate size of that business in terms of revenues and profits may not match current expectations, but it's also not 0

▲bombcar an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I think we're going to suddenly see them greatly scale back training and try to sell inference-only, but they all know when they do that someone can jump up and outstrip them.

▲teiferer an hour ago | parent | next [-]

But only as long as training actually improves models significantly. As soon as those improvements stay below a certain threshold, the better move is to invest your R&D money into other things like harnesses or new tricks one can play with existing models and the immense cost of training is just not worth it to be 0.5% ahead.

I'm absolutely certain that we will reach that point, just not when. Could come sooner than we think though.

▲xienze an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> I think we're going to suddenly see them greatly scale back training and try to sell inference-only

Remember a few weeks ago when all the AI labs said "we need to slow down, to uh, prevent destroying the world"?

▲SoftTalker an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Ding!

▲simianwords 27 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

In this version of conspiracy theory, all the labs secretly understood that training wasn't economically feasible anymore so they all jointly made it look like they were stopping for safety reasons.

Is there no end to this kind of lazy conspiracy theory

▲ambicapter 11 minutes ago | parent [-]

You don't need to communicate to coordinate. All these companies have the same business model, if it was financially advantageous for one of them to push that narrative, then it's financially advantageous for all of them.

▲ceroxylon an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Anthropic appears to have found a path to profitability: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmarkman/2026/08/17/anthropic...

▲combobyte an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Those numbers intentionally exclude the single largest operating expense that Anthropic has: model training. [1]

So yeah, if they stop training models forever, Anthropic will probably start making a profit... until someone else with better models comes along to eat their lunch.

[1] https://www.morningstar.com/news/marketwatch/2026091414/the-...

▲ahartmetz an hour ago | parent | next [-]

In the discussion of a similar article, it was called PBBT - profit before bad things.

▲freecodeio 5 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

kind of puts it in 4K the reason behind "we must pace the frontier"

▲boc an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Or if model training is more of a rollercoaster, where spending gets you to the top of the hill where you create a massive internal model which can then build the next version of itself for cheaper and cheaper amounts relative to human R&D costs. If Anthropic is first over that hill, they can race far ahead.

▲simianwords 28 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Maybe... just maybe companies find an equilibrium? Maybe companies reinvest in training because there's performance increase?

▲stymaar an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They have found a path to “profitability” iif you define “profitable” in a way that makes every early stage start-up that has at least one paying customer as “profitable”. Literally any start-up has a COGS lower than their income, but that doesn't mean anything at actual profitability given that the rest of their expenses dwarfs it.

▲Eufrat an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I believe the entire basis of their profitable quarter was getting a discount on compute from Musk.

All these figures are so utterly weaselly. AAR is a made up measure to make them look good. If they cannot show GAAP numbers, they are hiding something. Full stop. While as private companies they are under no legal obligation to show us their books, their PR and intent to go public requires it.

▲bluecalm an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

IPO = It's Probably Overpriced.

The reason is that companies can choose the best timing to go public - when their financial look the best - and they do. Anthropic trying to go public very soon is a good tell their financial look pretty decent. OpenAI postponing the IPO is a very good tell theirs look bad.

▲armcat an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There are bits and pieces of info scattered everywhere but no coherent picture. We know from a16z report [1] that only 2% of US households pay for AI subscriptions, so most of the seat based pricing comes from business and enterprise agreements. We know that OpenAI ads business has $1 billion USD in annualised revenue run rate [2]. We know from OpenRouter data [3] that in 2025 70% of the API token spend was across all the proprietary models (Anthropic did very well in 2025, while OpenAI clawed back market share in 2026).

It all starts to look like a very low margins business, and reminds me very much of telecom industry.

[1] https://www.a16z.news/p/state-of-markets-ii

[2] https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/openais-ad-bu...

[3] https://openrouter.ai/state-of-ai

▲bko an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What regulation makes it so that a large private company would have to go public? You have it backwards. Increased regulations make it more burdensome for a company to go public, driving companies like OpenAI to remain private. If you made it less expensive and burdensome to IPO (decreased regulation), you would see companies go IPO earlier.

This also coincides with a growing market for private credit and VC which certainly helps companies stay private for longer.

▲einszwei an hour ago | parent | next [-]

There was a rule[1] pre-2012 that forced public disclosure (akin to listed companies) for private companies when it had >500 shareholder (which counted employees with shares). This made it so that companies had a choice to stay private with all obligation of public disclosure or go public for added benefit of tapping public market.

In 2012 this was relaxed in JOBS Act which relaxed the 500 threshold to 2000 but more importantly it ignored employees so now private companies of gargantuan trillion dollar valuation and thousands of employees have no disclosure requirements.

So, this is a classic case of regulation that did well but was relaxed and now creates hidden risks.

[1]: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/5/500-shareholder-thresho...

▲bko an hour ago | parent [-]

I think they would have kept it under 500 if they had to. I doubt this is the determining factor. In fact a lot more than 2k investors have exposure through SPVs or holding companies on top of holding companies. So no, I don't think this was the determining factor that allowed OpenAI to stay private longer.

▲einszwei 41 minutes ago | parent [-]

I disagree. Not counting employees as shareholders was the main kicker. There was a reason Google and Meta went public so early in their growth story.

▲bko 21 minutes ago | parent [-]

Seems really unfair to early stage employees as without this they would be much less likely to receive equity from employers. I guess it would force some companies to go public earlier but at the expense of employees who would get virtually none of the upside, and startups can't compete for talent.

▲ 13 minutes ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
▲Yizahi 10 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> What regulation makes it so that a large private company would have to go public?

My guess would be - oxytocin, cortisol and dopamine regulation, or rather the failure of said regulation.

▲jcranmer an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Regulations that limit the ability of investors to invest in private companies, although these have been weakened in recent decades, which helps fuel the growth of private credit markets that allow private companies to stay private.

I'd say it's the growth of private markets to allow companies to keep getting funding even at the $100 billion range while staying private that has fueled the trend to stay private rather than SOX and other new regulations for public corporate governance dissuading them from going public.

▲gruez an hour ago | parent [-]

>Regulations that limit the ability of investors to invest in private companies, although these have been weakened in recent decades, which helps fuel the growth of private credit markets that allow private companies to stay private.

Which regulations are these?

▲iwontberude an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

▲notfromhere 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nobody is quiet about doing well. And the frenetic release schedule of kinda half baked products tells a story (not a good one)

▲whateveracct an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

it really is a privatize the gains socialize the losses situation, isn't it? due to the new rules (or lack thereof), public investors didn't have access to all that growth.

no way it ever gives you a return like, say, the amazon IPO could've.

▲bko an hour ago | parent [-]

What are you talking about?

Losses are much more privatized staying private. Instead of hitting people's 401k or pension fund, this is mostly contained to a concentrated set of VC and PE investors, not large public markets.

▲georgemcbay 9 minutes ago | parent [-]

The companies involved still come for the 401k/pension funds, they just now wait until the majority of the upside growth has been realized and then dump the downside on to 401k/pension funds.

See: SpaceX and the Nasdaq 100 rule changes.

▲grebc 26 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>Right now we have a ~$1 trillion company which a ton of the “economy” and valuations are based on, with near zero information on how it’s doing.

This is definitely by design and encouraged by the VC’s. It’s disgusting to consider what a simulacrum of a market the stock market has actually become.

▲georgemcbay an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> This is an interesting shift compared to the past where OpenAI would’ve been public a long time ago (due to various regulations) so we would have much more direct insight.

There's a good recent YouTube video about the shift in regulations that switched IPOs from being a way to raise money for growth to being a way to dump on retail investors after all the significant growth has been funded by private investors:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roe3SgezmmU

▲Dezvous an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They would go public if they were doing well.

▲outside1234 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

How much money do they have left? It is hard for me to see how OpenAI doesn't fail at this point. There is no business, no moat. Honestly, the best outcome seems like failing up into a Microsoft acquisition at this point.

▲helsinkiandrew 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They’re raising another $30B:

https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/openai-targets-3...

▲Dezvous an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Any company that would hypothetically acquire them would need to be able to fully - and indefinitely - subsidize their unsustainable operational costs. I don't see how that's realistic even for a company like Microsoft.

▲rchaud 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There is a moat: government contracts. Everything from NSF grant reviews, drone warfare, DHS visa processing and Medicare/Medicaid claims processing are up for grabs under the right administration.

▲WinstonSmith84 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

it will fail the day there is a downturn of the economy. That day will be at a 2001 or a 2008 like event - anytime within the next few years (I've no crystal ball, but strong convictions haha).

And yes, they will be acquired by a company which will have survived the next crash at a fraction of their currently estimated valuation and we will truly have the next ride of the economy .. many years ahead if 2001 is an example.

▲teiferer an hour ago | parent [-]

Why does it have to be such a crash? Could it be just flatlining for a long time? Or perhaps slowly going down? What makes you so sure that it will be a big booom like dotcom or 2008?

▲WinstonSmith84 12 minutes ago | parent [-]

Many reasons:

- economy has been slowing down (the real one, the people) while stocks are at record high

- a long overdue business cycle which has been pushed back and back and back ...

- rates hiking (in a slowing down economy)

- bubbles, and that AI bubble is huge. Loving AI on an every day basis but revenue wise, it's not mainstream, far from it. Average people want free stuff, they're good with Google or Facebook throwing them ads, they don't want to pay $200 for a subscription and fact is, 2026 revenues are about $100b totall. Meanwhile hyperscalers are spending about $1 to $2 trillion alone in 2026, and meant to increase within the next few years. You need a lot of imagination to see how this can "flatten" nicely.

Like internet didn't disappear after 2001, AI is here to stay, too. But...

▲sensanaty an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

The entire US economy is propped up by this bubble, so they will be propped up as much and as long as possible. Basically all money these days is going into this charade, to stop or even slow it down would cause a disastrous collapse