| ▲ | Bratmon 3 hours ago | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
This entire article seems to be based on an assumption that the cost of batteries will go down 33% over the next 10 years because demand is so high, but costs of gas turbines will go up over the next 10 years because demand is so high. Neither of these assumptions are based on anything other than "That's the number we had to put in to the model to get the conclusion we want". | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ▲ | nicoburns 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
The cost of batteries has gone down somewhere between 60-80% over the previous 10 years (and my understanding is that trend is expected to continue due to a combination of new technologies (e.g. Sodium Ion) and increased scale). So that one seems totally reasonable. A little conservative if anything. I can't comment on the cost of Gas Turbines. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ▲ | WarmWash an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Batteries are easy to build (ish) and pretty scalable. New capacity can come online to meet demand. IIRC there are something like 3 companies on earth that can make gas turbine blades, as it's a particularly difficult process, and they are sold out for the foreseeable future. New capacity is severely constrained and cannot meet demand. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ▲ | newyankee 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Swanson's law and learning rates do seem to apply to batteries more as well as the fact that their no of cycles seem to be much longer than initially thought for LFP as well as storage focused Sodium ion batteries from CATL | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ▲ | jillesvangurp an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
There's a bit more to it than that. Battery production is being invested in heavily. There are new types of batteries (like sodium ion) that are extremely relevant to the article that it barely even mentions. The pitch for those is of course no lithium, better temperature ranges, less need for cooling/heating them, much better fire safety, better durability, etc. This all adds up to lower cost when done at scale. That all adds up to a lot less cost for especially grid storage. I agree the 33% number is meaningless. It's probably too conservative. The article actually does not talk about new battery chemistries like sodium ion. And given that large scale factories are already producing those by the tens of gwh, I think that's more than a little oversight. Additionally, there are learning effects that explain the large differences in prices between markets that the article mentions. Those are optimizations that countries have yet to implement. Some might not get around to that any time soon (like the US seems a bit of a basket case on cost/efficiency for a lot of things). Because of the improvements in battery cost relative to the stagnating improvements in gas turbines, gas turbine manufacturers are going to be conservative in investing in new production capacity. A lot of companies that say right now that they are going to want to buy gas turbines might no longer want to in a few years. For example the low cost and ready availability of solar+battery might be persuasive for some. Investing many billions in new production capacity that won't come online until some time next decade is highly risky if the projected demand could evaporate. The reason there is a shortage is that that's what they thought five to ten years ago as well. So, it's easy to predict that turbine shortages might continue to exist. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ▲ | bryanlarsen 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Supply is larger than demand for batteries and prices are going down. Demand is larger than supply for natural gas turbines and prices are going up. But that's just the short term. More importantly, I believe that manufacturers are more confident in the long term future of demand for batteries so are willing to continue to invest. People are going to be buying electric cars 10 years from now. The demand for gas turbines in 10 years seems a lot more murky. SpaceX has promised to start making turbines, which would bring their price down. But it's an Elon Musk promise, so how much weight do you put on it? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ▲ | scythe 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
One enduring insight from Brian Potter (Construction Physics) is that the cost of manufacturing tends to go down with scale, while the cost of construction doesn't drop nearly as much. Batteries are made in a factory and then pretty much just hooked up, while gas turbines have to be built. So, the difference in forecasts makes sense if you apply that rule. There have been some experiments with prefabricated construction, but you still run into the issue that shipping really big things is hard, as we've seen with wind turbine blades. Robotic construction might make a dent at some point, but it still seems to be basically embryonic. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ▲ | sanderjd 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Wouldn't you agree that we're much further along the learning curve for turbines than for large scale battery storage? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ▲ | toomuchtodo 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
https://ourworldindata.org/battery-price-decline > Every time the global cumulative battery production has doubled, the price has dropped by roughly 19%. There are only a handful of gas turbine manufacturers left, with a manufacturing backlog of half a decade. It is exceptionally obvious battery manufacturing will only continue to scale (TAM is global EV and stationary storage market), and gas turbine builders will hang on until the economics turn, which they have. Regardless, these trajectories will hold unless something exceptional occurs. Is it likely we’ll build more batteries faster? Yes. Is it likely these are the last three major gas turbine manufacturers to exist? Also yes. Last call for buggy whips. https://www.enverus.com/blog/the-queue-before-the-queue-gevs... https://fgermini.substack.com/p/heavy-duty-gas-turbines-the-... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ▲ | atoav 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
If you had asked me whether I see more potential for battery prices to go down than turbine prices I would 100% say that batteries have more potential. Why? 1. Because there is a lot of pressure for them to go down, in literally every form of technology, be it phones, robots, drones, EVs, ... Turbines are also important, but they have had that pressure for decades and are relatively finished. Any further improvement will give diminishing results outside of specialized applications and demands 2. Because the technology for batteries is relatively open ended in comparison. Turbine prices are mainly about how that steel can be precision engineered and while there is some innovation at this front, the gains from that innovation have slowed for a while now. With batteries however the race is still very open and it would not be naive to assume some new chemistry will be found that reduces the cost and energy density drastically. I don't know the economics around precision engineering well enough to intelligently how high demand impacts the manufacturing cost, but I could imagine it behaving slightly different than the cost of simpler processes, especially since good CNC machines are hefty investments. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ▲ | specialist 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Regrettably, the authority you crave (linked reports) are paywalled. https://www.woodmac.com/reports/power-markets-north-america-... Here's a prior take on this topic: The big stories from the last year in electricity [2026-04] https://www.volts.wtf/p/the-big-stories-from-the-last-year Global Electricity Review 2026 https://ember-energy.org/latest-insights/global-electricity-... TLDR: Every where but some parts of the USA, solar + battery is the cheapest source of new power generation. Tariffs and subsidies continue to prop up gas generation. 40% YOY drop in battery prices!? Solar + battery is still on the cost learning curve (no where near plateau), whereas gas (extraction, turbines, etc) plateaued a while back. -- That episode (and Ember's report) looks back at 2025. So it couldn't account for this year's increased prices and volatility for gas, or data centers increasing the demand for gas turbines. Globally, solar + battery adoption continues to accelerate. In the USA, big tech forfeited their climate pledges (choosing to use gas) and new solar + battery continues to be blocked by our constipated connection queue (to the grid). | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||