The west wanted a confrontation with Russia (pushed Zelenski out of the Misk accords; keeps supplying weapons for the lost cause Ukraine; Merkel lied about seize-fire intentions; NorthStream was infighting in the coalition pushing Germany further from Russia).

The Israel wanted a confrontation with Iran, and used it's --as we now all know-- pit-bull lapdog USA to do most of it for them. They killed Iran's leader and some of his family: something we long ago decided is "not modern".

Both countries are not giving in. And they should not. These are existential matters for them; they crossed red lines; they are illegal escalations by all rules and conventions. But the west can do what it wants.

Now Europe is caught in the middle. US has fuel, and basically annexed Venezuela. Europe has to pay through the nose for energy.

The narrative has never been more blatantly misconstrued in the corporate media: Russia will not attack Europe, and if genocidal-Israel can have illegal A-bombs while refusing inspections why bother with Iran doing the same?

Fearmongering. All to "save our democracies and freedom". It's getting old really quick. And combined with ridiculous immigration policies they may destroy Europe as we know it in a few decades, I'm afraid. But saying so, results in the immediate "extreme right-wing Putin propagandist" label, and thus can be disregarded.

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pepperoni_pizza 21 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Everyone, let's not argue with Russian propagandist. There's no point. Just flag and move on.

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ccila102 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

About your first paragraph:

- what action specifically is the west pushing Zelenski away from Minsk?

- why is the Ukraine war a lost cause if it is tying up Russian military resources?

- how does Merkel wish for a stronger Ukraine defense indicate a wish for confrontation instead of a deterrence against it?

- how does northstream, which seems to be Ukraine going against “the west”, an evidence for the west wanting a confrontation with Russia?

	▲	flossly 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Thanks for interacting in good faith... - what action specifically is the west pushing Zelenski away from Minsk? Both Minsk and Istanbul accords would have been signed if the west did not encourage Zelenski not to sign. The BoJo visit is widely quoted. - why is the Ukraine war a lost cause if it is tying up Russian military resources? Ukraine itself it lost. Maybe the west-coalition still finds it useful. But the country is now conscripting women. They do not have the men anymore. No airdefence. Losing land at an ever increasing pace. Attack on russian industry are countered with 10x harder attacks on ukrainian industry. Supporting coutries less willing to give to Zelenski. Country is in shambles. - how does Merkel wish for a stronger Ukraine defense indicate a wish for confrontation instead of a deterrence against it? If you are a guarantor country for a de-escalation peace deal, it is dirty to merely hold up appearances in order to buy Ukraine time to strengthening them for the confrontation that you know will come. That's two-faces guarantorship. - how does northstream, which seems to be Ukraine going against “the west”, an evidence for the west wanting a confrontation with Russia? As long as the NS is operating, Germany and Russia have strong economic ties. Breaking those ties by an act of industrial terrorism (by Ukraine on Germany -- which should trigger a NATO-art5 in normal situations) is bringing NATO more together. Germany has to buy energy from the US now. Lol.

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Germanioum 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No the west did not want a confrontation with Russia/Putin. Merkel tried to reign in Putin with Gas.

Putin wanted the confrontation and started to attack Ukraine, killing people for no other reason than his ego.

US has expensive fuel and not the right one and also still trades its oil internationally and facing a huge price increase for millions, it also has to pay a lot more money for fertilizers.

The oil of venezuela is the wrong kind of oil and can't just be bought and processed by the USA with a snip of a finger. They have to build/change their refineries for it.

Minsconstrued in the media? Russia will not attack Europe because Putin knows he is gone the moment he starts attacking Nato.

Yeah lets have a PROPER discussion and not some right-wing telegram magic group thinking wanna be intelligence experts. After Ukraine, Moldovoa, Belarus and others would have fallen.

This proxy war is a realltive good outcome especially after what russia was doing the last 15 years: Propaganda manipulation in the west and killing of people with toxins and intervening / playing armsdealer to Africa with conflicts against France.

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flossly 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think the Odessa Union house arson clearly shows that Ukraine is not protecting it's ethnic-Russian population. Also Ukrain and the baltics trying to ban Russian as al language is a big indicator to me (does not fit a free-democracy with freedom of speech).

Russia invaded Ukraine. Yes. In geopolitics these things happen. You need to know eachother's red lines. Ukraine in NATO is such a line. The west also did it: Turkey (NATO) is still in Syria, US topples Venezuela, US attacked Cuba, Israel is currently outside of its border -- all in the name of security. But Russia cannot do it. No Russia is bad and policy is Putins-ego driven.

NATO can attack Russia (though Ukraine) so it's not a direct confrontation and not on NATO soil. "To the last Ukrainian!" the shout. It's really horrific. Ukraine is ravaged by West/NATO policy. And then remember that Zelenski said he wanted to keep the peace and stay neutral during his election campaign.

"This proxy war is a realltive good outcome" -- nearly made me puke. It looks at Ukrainians as cannon fodder. Is you do not want to fight the war, but just pay from the sidelines, you are IMHO an evil manipulator.

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hintbits 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> I think the Odessa Union house arson clearly shows that Ukraine is not protecting it's ethnic-Russian population. Also Ukrain and the baltics trying to ban Russian as al language is a big indicator to me (does not fit a free-democracy with freedom of speech).

There is no ban or ban attempt on speaking Russian in those countries, you can hear spoken Russian on the streets of Riga, Tallinn or Kyiv. Also, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes, nothing to do with Russian ethnicity or language.

	▲	flossly 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		So why did the right sector burn down a house with people in it? Maidan related? Is Maidan not also Russia-related?

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flossly 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes (article on the arson)

One of the attacking groups is the "Right sector", see their OUN links. These guys are basically neo-nazis, and they were killing ethnic Russians. Wikipedia frames this information as Russian propaganda, I see it as what actually happened.

The people that died where Unionists -- you know those groups that got us 8h workdays, weekends, holidays and sick-leave.

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reeredfdfdf 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

NATO supporting Ukraine in their defensive war is horrific in your opinion, but Putin sending hundreds of thousands of young Russian men to die isn't? Your moral compass sounds deeply flawed.

Perhaps Ukraine should have agreed to never join NATO, but I'm not sure whether this would have prevented the war. After all, Putin seems to genuinely think Ukrainians are not real ethnicity, and that the land thus belongs to Russia. From a Finnish point of view, Russians have again and again proved they cannot be trusted. Even during the good period between collapse of the Soviet Union and invasion of Crimea, Russian air force regularly violated our airspace. Intelligence operatives kept buying property that made no financial sense, but was located near military installations or critical infrastructure. Why would a friendly nation do this?

I believe in negotiations and diplomacy with Russia, but ONLY when all that is backed by enough military force. Because that is what Russians ultimately respect. The Soviet Union annexed or enslaved its weaker neighbors into puppet states, and that is what Russia ultimately aims to do. Ukraine is only the first step.

	▲	flossly 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		It's both horrible. But Putin is now fighting a was on land with predominantly ethnic-Russians on it. He's doing it now so he has all Russians consolidated, and never has to fight again "over Russians". This "Ukraine is only the first step." narrative is no-were seen IRL. All superpowers use their force to advance their interests. Hence Venezuela got toppled, Iran is attacked, Taiwan has independence issues, Cuba could not build missile silos on their "sovereign land". I believe the west helped Ukraine to get in this war in the first place.

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Germanioum 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Odessa Union house arson is not any indicaton at all. Putin wasn't the rescueer of his Russians in Ukraine and this doesn't allow an attacker to overtake a government and a country.

I'm shocked on how you don't care or mind at all that a whole country is getting attacked at all and you don't care apparently that Putin has killed 500.000 OF ITS OWN people to protect its ethnic russian population?

NATO is not ATTACKIng RUSSIA through UKRAINE. NATO is PROTECTING UKRAINE FROM Russia.

And you either are compeltly clueless or ignorant. Russians main strategy is to overtake a country and the first thing they do is to remove the local people and put russians in their place to break their culture.

Ah wait you are a russian bot or so. Go back to your propaganda telegram group.

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flossly 3 hours ago | parent [-]

"Ah wait you are a russian bot or so. Go back to your propaganda telegram group." -- and so the namecalling starts.

Ukraine is not at war with Russia. If that was the case this was over in 2023.

NATO/ the west is in a proxy war with Russia: that's why it takes so long.

Anyway. Now the reality get clear. Russia is winning. The break away regions/oblasts (that followed a similar path to how Kosovo was broken off of Serbia by the west) are almost under Russian control. And let's see where it goes from there. Russia is crazy to trust the west on its word at this point.

Also it is said that Ukraine is a peaceful country. I beg to differ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_involvement_in_the_I...

They joined an illegal war, and co-invaded an sovereign country. And no-one batted an eye back then. Because it was a invasion "the west" started: then it is okay!

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Germanioum 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Stop this and start talking to me about the points i made:

You said Putin is rescuing the russian people in Ukraine. I say: Putin sent 500.000 Russians to die in Ukraine for rescuing russians? That doesn't make any sense at all.

You are sending WIkipedaiarticles but you don't read the one telling you its a war? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_war_(2022%E2%8...

And again: You do remember when Russia put its Troops on the Ukrainine borders for an excersise lying to the west and then taking over crimea and later on trying to overtake the Ukrainine Gov without any talks to the west?

Russia is not winning anything, russia lost already A LOT of Humans/man, restructured its industry to produce war items and they just announced themselves to reduce social spending by 7% for its own people to burn even more money on military.

The decision of Putin to fight this war out will hurt Russia as a country for decades and through its show of weakness, no one takes russia serious anymore. The military parades? man a joke. They even reused their tanks (the old ones) because they can't show anything anymore.

	▲	flossly 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		We'll see. I think we are not told what's going on on the ground in the west. Once the Kramatorsk-Slaviansk conglomerations falls, the annex-Donbas-mission is basically done.

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etcetcetcetceta 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>Merkel tried to reign in Putin with Gas.

It's rein.

It's also nonsense, Russia had Germany on a leash, you cannot seriously believe Merkel was playing Putin.

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flossly 3 hours ago | parent [-]

And that leash was NorthStream? C'mon, it's not a leash when (1) both parties can stop the flow if they want, and (2) if both parties seem to be doing just fine with the leash/pipe no longer functioning.

	▲	kakacik 43 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		Man you sure like russian propaganda from A to Z, the logic is simply not there as russia doesn't operate on logic but oligarchic mafia power pyramids with their own selfish goals. Most of things you write are bullshit to be polite, lies and more lies directly from petrohrad's GRU troll farms. Its aimed for folks with below-average IQ and it works surprisingly well (given it uses psychology us-vs-them to split given population into similar silos for further processing and attack on negative emotions which is not rocket science). Just an example of your bullshit - if Germany's half of industry is directly depending on that gas, there is no way they can turn it off just like that. It took them significant amount of time to find other sources and increased their final prices, and part of current industry decline making them less competitive. So much for who owns that leash, but those are facts, so just secondary topic for such folks. You know, lies can be put out eloquently so they work at least a bit. Definitely not what you put here.