| ▲ | mitxela 4 hours ago |
| Remember that Factorio does not release its 3D models. Everything in the game is a 2D render of a 3D model, which is why the game uses so much VRAM. |
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| ▲ | gizmo686 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| As far as the game in concerned, the sprites are all just 2D assets. The fact that those assets came from a 3d model during development has no effect on performance. They also do manual post-processing on most of the 2D renders. https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-146 |
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| ▲ | mitxela 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Literally what I just said | | |
| ▲ | xboxnolifes 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Your wording can easily be read as them shipping 3d models and rendering them as 2d at runtime. It's a weird way to say the game is made up of 2d assets. | | |
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| ▲ | Sohcahtoa82 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| ? The game doesn't consume that much VRAM. It plays on 4 GB GPUs just fine. The GPU only needs to keep resident what's currently on the screen. Even including every animation frame, that's 1 GB tops. Hell, the minimum requirements are a GeForce 750 Ti, or Radeon r7 360. Those are 2 GB GPUs. |
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| ▲ | daedrdev an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | In fact, sometimes when your game lags too much you can speed it up by zooming in! (Only in some cases) | |
| ▲ | lucb1e 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > The game doesn't consume that much VRAM. It plays on 4 GB GPUs just fine. Not everyone bought a GPU to run LLMs on. That is quite a bit of VRAM, especially for non-desktops | | |
| ▲ | officeplant an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | That's the amount of VRAM that has shipped in budget to midtier gpu's since at least 2016 with the RX470/480 from AMD. You can find even older & slower examples from Nvidia and AMD (ex. Nvidia 740GT 4GB edition) Gaming hardware reviewers have been complaining about 4GB of VRAM not being enough since probably 2018 onward. I have a weird setup with two very old 5:4 1280x1024 monitors I like to use for fun, and even playing Subnautica (2018 Release date) I can use up 3.4GB of VRAM at that low of a resolution on High settings. (playing on a single monitor) | | |
| ▲ | lucb1e an hour ago | parent [-] | | > That's the amount of VRAM that has shipped in budget to midtier gpu's since at least 2016 In desktops maybe, which will be somewhat popular still among people who play a lot of games but not a majority (IDC has laptop sales at a 3 to 1 ratio to desktops in 2022, but that's not specific to people who play games, much less (2d) Factorio players specifically). The system I bought before my current one was in 2018 and mid-tier then was 2GB. There was no craze for (V)RAM at the time, more a question of which setting you want to play games at (and with which render distance) than whether a given laptop works for games at all As of last month, Steam reports that >15% of their customers still have 4GB VRAM or less: https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Softw... I'm not familiar with Subnautica beyond the name, is that known for being particularly efficient? edit: meant to say 4GB rather than 2GB in the Steam stats reference, fixed | | |
| ▲ | Sohcahtoa82 42 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > The system I bought before my current one was in 2018 and mid-tier then was 2GB. Mid-tier laptop GPU in 2018 would have been a GeForce 1060, which came in either 3 or 6 GB variants. GeForce 1050 Ti came in a 2 GB variant, but I wouldn't classify that as mid-tier. The x050 variants (1050, 2050, etc) are budget tier. | |
| ▲ | officeplant 43 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | >As of last month, Steam reports that >10% of their customers have 2GB VRAM or less: https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Softw... Steam having a massive collection of users with older hardware doesn't really make 4GB of VRAM any larger. My current main machine reports less than 1GB since its an iGPU. (But I've seen it use over 8gb of system memory as VRAM) >I'm not familiar with Subnautica, is that known for being particularly efficient? Its a pretty well made unity engine game with a minimum requirement of Intel HD4000 integrated graphics. IDK if it would be consideredban efficient game vs other visually nice from this time frame like DOOM 2016 which runs really well on 4GB vram cards if you stick to 900p and below resoultions. |
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| ▲ | BatFastard 27 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If ONLY I had know to buy 16 GB of VRam on my cards. I have 12, but they struggle. Hell if I had know that a 5090 would be worth 6000 USD I would have brought as many of them as I could for 2000 USD! | |
| ▲ | jamesgeck0 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If you play video games, it's basically nothing. I bought a 6 GB VRAM card for ~$300 a decade ago. Many recent games require a minimum of 8 GB VRAM and can scale up to 16 GB VRAM on higher settings. | | |
| ▲ | lucb1e 21 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Sure I play video games, but not usually the ones from the current year. Besides the price of the game itself, it won't run well on laptop hardware anyway and there's such an enormous collection of great games from past years. Factorio is an exception for me, I've played it since not long after the initial release in 2016 and actually got entertainment for so many hours that I thought it fair to buy it a second time ^^' |
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| ▲ | Sohcahtoa82 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | What the actual fuck are you talking about? This has to be a troll comment. 4 GB is nothing. Mid-grade GPUs from 2013 had 4 GB. Budget GPUs from 2016 (10 years ago!) had 4 GB. | | |
| ▲ | snazz an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | You can play Factorio on laptops and other devices that don’t have dedicated GPUs. A mid-grade computer from 2013 would be a $599 laptop with a Core i3 integrated GPU that shared the 4 GB of system RAM. | | |
| ▲ | jamesgeck0 26 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Such a machine would probably benchmark favorably against the Nintendo Switch, which runs Factorio on downclocked tablet hardware of a similar era. |
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| ▲ | harpersealtako an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | the "minimum requirements" aren't even the actual minimum, the game can definitely play on worse machines than that (just inconsistently). I know from personal experience that you can play factorio (at least the base game) on a crappy old 2009 toshiba laptop. Pretty sure it doesn't even have a GPU, just integrated graphics. It doesn't run well but it's not an action game, a little stutter isn't the end of the world and anybody playing on a system like that should not be surprised by it. | | |
| ▲ | komodo99 25 minutes ago | parent [-] | | The most potato i've run it on was a CB131 chromebook, (which was about a hundred bucks in 2017) and even then, even though video was chugging at 20fps, the main update loop was locked at 60TPS. very impressive. (and helpful for a 9 hour layover on christmas eve, anecdotally) |
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| ▲ | vlyan 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| it does? I don't have it installed now (lest I get tempted into a quick 2-hour session and end up being late for work 12 hours later), but IIRC it performed the same for me on iGPU and 4090, even on the big saves running below 60 FPS/UPS. |
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| ▲ | tasuki an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Everything in the game is a 2D render of a 3D model, which is why the game uses so much VRAM. Surely from first principles one'd expect 3D models to be heavier than the 2D renders, due to the extra axis? |
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| ▲ | katzenq 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Do they really load so many spirites into memory it's heavier than 3D? |
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| ▲ | Sohcahtoa82 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There are assumptions being made about texture resolution. The high quality sprites are 64 pixels across per tile. With each tile being 1 meter, 1 pixel is 1.56 cm (About 0.63 inches) across. By today's standards, that's a very low texture resolution, though they can get away with it when your camera is so far away. But if the game was 3D, you could expect players to put the camera closer to your objects. You'd need significantly higher texture resolutions. And you'd need a texture for each part of the object. Meanwhile, consider a 3x3 object. That's 192x192 = 36,864 pixels. Assume it has a 60 fps, 2-second animation loop. That's 4,423,680 pixels. With 8 bytes per channel and 4 channels (RGBA), that's about 17.7 MB, which allows you to store 56 objects per GB. Which doesn't sound like a lot, but we're making some huge assumptions. Not all objects are 3x3 tiles. Most don't have 120 frames of animation. And as I mentioned in another comment, you don't need to store ALL the game's art in VRAM at once. Only what's on the screen. And you can certainly fit an entire screen's worth of animations in a 2 GB GPU. | | |
| ▲ | soulbadguy 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Meanwhile, consider a 3x3 object. That's 192x192 = 36,864 pixels. Assume it has a 60 fps, 2-second animation loop. That's 4,423,680 pixels. With 8 bytes per channel and 4 channels (RGBA), that's about 17.7 MB, which allows you to store 56 objects per GB. I am assuming that they are laveraging multiple compression technics like using texture specific compression on the gpu, or sub sampling the resolution directly.
8 bytes per channel seems rather large here as well. | | |
| ▲ | Sohcahtoa82 an hour ago | parent [-] | | > 8 bytes per channel seems rather large here as well. That was a typo. I meant 8 bits per channel. |
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| ▲ | mitxela 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yes. Several GB. I had to enable half resolution to play modded Space Age. | | |
| ▲ | sdenton4 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Hmmm... The Factorio team is famously performance oriented, and more scenes are often far less so. Are you sure the problem wasn't the mods? I have good memories of sending my Kerbal frame rates to hell with generous modding, both for graphics and the physics engine. | | |
| ▲ | lucb1e 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I also struggled with performance in space age and mentioned it to a developer, but the solution was setting a setting which I had tested previously (no fog) and did nothing... on Nauvis. Turns out it's the difference between stuttering and smooth when in space platform view. They do still care but I guess there's only so much you can do if you also have other tasks to get to | |
| ▲ | bombcar 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Reporting the issue with mods to the team will likely get them to fix something - they're that performance oriented. |
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| ▲ | conorcleary 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Somehow the engineering behind this will help that fly and all his viewpoint windows |