| ▲ | Aurornis 8 hours ago |
| Everyone should read the case of the IT consultant getting arrested in the UK because he posted a photo of him doing some target shooting during a trip to the US: https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/consultant-arrested-linkedin-s... Stories like this quickly put to rest the idea that everyone who gets arrested must actually deserve it. The bar for posting content that violates the law is very low. There was also the tragic story of the Cambridge professor who was completely unqualified and had a fake life story. When journalists would get close to the story he would report them to the police for harassment to spike the stories. |
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| ▲ | chmod775 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| I don't know about that case, but the bar is as low as it can be anyways. Hapless UK police are willing to play attack dog for nearly anyone. Someone got arrested and intimidated by police because they criticized someone with even only a modicom of authority: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/mar/29/parents-arre... Imagine getting six police officers sent to your house and spending 11 hours at a police station for causing "disharmony" by disagreeing with how your daughter's school operates in a WhatsApp group. In a sensible country that might've been a phone call or a single officer stopping to chat and defusing the situation if police decided to get involved at all. |
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| ▲ | foldr 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | This was, obviously, stupid and wrong, but: * The Police admitted their obvious error and paid £20k in damages: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gz1qy30v5o * This bizarre case has nothing to do with "speech that offends the prevailing political orthodoxy" (root comment). If you look for examples of the police arresting people for stupid and unjustifiable reasons, you can find them in lots of countries, including the US. For example, here is someone being arrested in Kansas for clapping too loudly during a meeting: https://www.kbtx.com/2026/07/27/teacher-arrested-repeatedly-... It's absolutely right that this sort of thing is reported and it's right for people to be outraged about it. However, I'd be cautious about drawing overly sweeping conclusions about the UK from such cases. |
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| ▲ | walrus01 27 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Entirely aside from the getting arrested in the UK part, what sort of absolute noob posts photos of themselves shooting an AR15 that has no sights whatsoever on it? |
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| ▲ | amiga386 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| In this particular case, the IT consultant was owed money by a failing business, and he put 1) a picture of the business premises, and 2) pictures of him firing guns, on a website where he was sure the business owner would see it. That's textbook intimidation, which in certain cases is a crime in the UK, and even some US states. You can also do it offline, for example, by sending a letter to the victim containing a photograph of the front of their house, and a photograph of you firing guns. The implication is pretty straightforward and doesn't even need to be stated: "I have guns and I know where you live. Pay me that money you owe me or I might use them." That implication is still there, for the victim, even if you add surface text like "Hey everyone look at these cool things!" Only _after_ he was arrested, and the police went looking around his house for guns... did he admit that the pictures were taken overseas, he doesn't actually own the guns. And yet that's what the article leads with, like it was a known fact from the get-go and those silly-billy police knew that but went looking for them in the UK anyway. This article is a great lesson in how to mislead without saying anything untrue. His own words in a different article make the reason for the arrest clear: https://nypost.com/2025/12/04/us-news/british-man-says-he-wa... > “The arrest was based on two separate social media posts,” he said. “One was the photo of myself with the shotgun, [...] And the second one was my LinkedIn banner at the top of the page.” > “I used the photo my business partner took on his premises as a header photo on LinkedIn with the intention he would look at that and go, ‘Why’s this guy posting that? I’d better call him and find out rather than dodging me’ as it had done for months,” he said. EDIT 2: for avoidance of doubt, he did three days in a row of LinkedIn blog posts, where 1) his PFP at the time (shown in the top-right corner) was a picture of the business premises 2) the text of the post talked about the "delinquent client" 3) the post ended with a no-context-given picture of him posing with guns Example: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jonrichelieu-booth_jonthehash... EDIT: and your second example is also dangerously misleading. Jason Arday (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Arday) and/or his university reported 2 professors and 1 journalist to the police, pretending their requests for comment on his plagiarism were harrassment. For all three reports, police chose to take no action (nonetheless it still had a chilling effect on speech). What spiked the story is that Jason Arday and/or his university got very expensive reputation lawyers Carter-Fuck to send a C&D to the journalist's newspaper, promising expensive litigation if they published the story. That is what spiked the story, not intimidation via false harassment claims. Expensive lawyers making baseless threats work equally well in the US and UK to chill legal speech, it's not a policy issue. |
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| ▲ | kvuj 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > In this particular case, the IT consultant was owed money by a failing business, and he put 1) a picture of the business premises, and 2) pictures of him firing guns, on a website where he was sure the business owner would see it. From your own link, this was from 2 separate posts. I don't know man, this sounds like an excuse from the company to cause trouble and avoid having to pay the owed money. | | |
| ▲ | Aurornis 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Also the “website where he was sure the business owner would see it” is a cheap way to hide the fact that he posted on his on LinkedIn, which he used as his social media network. You can just say LinkedIn. We know what LinkedIn is. | | |
| ▲ | amiga386 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'm glad you know what LinkedIn is. Now imagine you owe this guy money, he's admitted in public that he put a picture of your business premises at the top of every blog post he makes on LinkedIn in order to get your attention, and his latest blog posts on the LinkedIn website therefore shows YOUR WORKPLACE and HIM SHOOTING GUNS. Juxtaposition that he admits he wants you to see. You can read all three blogposts. Note he has switched out the picture of the workplace (top-right PFP): 1. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jonrichelieu-booth_jonthehash... > Top of my agenda Today is getting a follow-up email to the Secretary of State for Business and Trade regarding my delinquent Client "delinquent client" and no mention of why there's a picture of him with guns or where it was taken 2. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jonrichelieu-booth_jonthehash... > I am disappointed that absolutely nothing has come back from the Secretary of State for Business and Trade (OR his Department) regarding my delinquent Client.. this is concerning as despite continuing to owe me "delinquent client" who "owes" him and once again, picture of him shooting guns apropos of nothing, nothing explaining where he is, whose guns they are, just him shooting guns. Guess he just likes to shoot guns while talking about his "delinquent client" who "owes" him and he's put a picture of the delinquent client's premises as his PFP. 3. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jonrichelieu-booth_jonthehash... > Today I'll be following up on my message to the Yorkshire Post by calling the Secretary of State for Business and Trade regarding my delinquent Client.. it's become necessary given what the Owner of said Client is currently doing. I'm also going to escalate my concerns to North Yorkshire Police, then I'll grab the Popcorn and see where this goes. And again no-context gun photo to add to the blog post about his delinquent client Hopefully you can understand why the guy who owes him money would feel intimidated and call the police, and you can see why there appears to be enough evidence to charge the guy for harrassing the ower, and to arrest him so you can establish if he possesses the guns he has posted himself shooting. | | |
| ▲ | Aurornis 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I read the posts. He's obviously writing daily updates and posts and includes pictures from his travels. The photos are obviously target shooting. This is a common sport in many countries. Your argument is that because he wrote long daily updates about what he was doing and included two unrelated things, that he's implying that the guns are for those offhand remarks? We get getting farther and farther from the real problem, which is that the UK police have been weaponized to respond to people's social media posts about how they make others feel. That's a ridiculously low bar. From https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/consultant-arrested-posi... > However, he said that a police officer later visited his home to warn him that concerns had been raised about the post. > "I was told to be careful what I say online and I need to understand how it makes people feel," he said. | |
| ▲ | IslandRebel 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Hopefully you can understand why the guy who owes him money would feel intimidated and call the police, and you can see why there appears to be enough evidence to charge the guy for harrassing the ower, and to arrest him so you can establish if he possesses the guns he has posted himself shooting. No, I don't understand why he would. Nothing there was intimidation. Pretending it is intimidation is stretching crudility. The fact that he got arrested over this is straight up nonsense, IMO. All the posts read like blog-style posts, and there wasn't any aggressive language used there at all. He also mentioned he was meeting with people to resolve the issue through legal means in the posts. I suspect the owner who owed him money was acting maliciously. | | |
| ▲ | joe463369 17 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Went to the gym, had a lovely meal at Piccolinos, them bastard's still won't pay me. Apropos of nothing, here's a picture of me with an assault rifle. If you're buying that, I've got a bridge to sell you. |
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| ▲ | amiga386 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jonrichelieu-booth_jonthehash... This is one of three days worth of posts where he talks about his "delinquent client" and ends with a picture of him and guns (with no explanation of why, where or how him and the guns are related to the body text). He put an image of the business owner's premises as his PFP in the top-right corner, which is now a picture of some people sitting in chairs. The business premises, "delinquent client" body text and gun photos appear on the same page. Further details: https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/12/01/uk-police-arrest-gun-... |
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| ▲ | joenot443 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jonrichelieu-booth_jonthehash... > Today I'll be following up on my message to the Yorkshire Post by calling the Secretary of State for Business and Trade regarding my delinquent Client.. it's become necessary given what the Owner of said Client is currently doing. I'm also going to escalate my concerns to North Yorkshire Police, then I'll grab the Popcorn and see where this goes. Wait, this is the threat? I'm bewildered this could be grounds for an arrest. That's pretty scary. | | |
| ▲ | foldr 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | No, the comment by itself wasn't the threat. Explanation here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49831263 Or just look at this post: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jonrichelieu-booth_jonthehash... It's the combination of the paragraph about the 'delinquent client' and the picture of him pointing a gun which could be construed as an implied threat. I don't know if that would hold up legally, but in any case, no charges were brought in the end. As to why the police did anything at all, the most likely explanation is that once the 'delinquent client' reported the LinkedIn posts, the Police saw a photo of someone using a shotgun who didn't have a shotgun license. Unaware that the photo was taken outside the UK, they probably decided that the combination of an unlicensed firearm and a possible implied threat was worth investigating. |
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| ▲ | ifh-hn 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Argh yes, context. I was wondering why the police were doing what they were doing. Police don't randomly do that to someone, there had to be a reason. Context is king. | | |
| ▲ | Aurornis 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Read the actual articles the person linked. The comment you’re replying to uses weasel words like saying “put them on a website” to conceal the fact that the “website” was the guy posting different unrelated things on his social media feed. In the second case, the person involved was weaponizing the police against a journalist who had uncovered something about a completely unqualified university professor who had a fraudulent background story. The police didn’t do it “randomly”. The professor knew how to use the laws to intimidate and silence his critics (when even the GP comment admits). Even the police later admitted they should not have gone as far as they did. | | |
| ▲ | blipvert 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Could you elaborate on how he was “completely unqualified”? AIUI his PhD was cleared on any claims of. It being untoward. Maybe something I missed, of course. | |
| ▲ | ifh-hn 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I did read the article, and my only takeaway was that it was missing context. But I agree that the law is being weaponised by bad actors, but irrespective of that the police are duty bound to investigate. They take the blame too. It's one of the few jobs everyone else knows how to do better than the people doing it. | |
| ▲ | amiga386 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The website, which is also his social media feed, is LinkedIn. Both the header image (of the ower's premises) and pictures of the owee shooting guns are on the same site. Hence the complaint of intimidation from the ower. In the second case, once again you repeat your nonsense. The chilling effect the police had, a wrong in and of itself, did not put the journalist off publishing. You can read the journalist's own words right here: https://www.timeshighereducation.com/opinion/i-was-reported-... > Despite the thoroughness of my investigation, THE did not run the story. While I was personally disappointed, I understood; by this point, Arday’s solicitors had been in touch with THE and it was clear that the story could tie the publication up in months of expensive litigation. Even if we were right – and I stand by my reporting – it would have been ruinously expensive. You want to say POLICE POLICE POLICE were chilling speech here. Bullshit. It was LAWYERS LAWYERS LAWYERS suppressing the story. | | |
| ▲ | Aurornis 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | > You want to say POLICE POLICE POLICE were chilling speech here. Bullshit. You're the only person in this thread using the phrase "chilling speech" and you keep admitting that they did. Let me quote you on this topic: > The chilling effect the police had, a wrong in and of itself, > In the case of the journalist Arday reported in 2025, police again did not arrest or charge him, but they (wrongly, in my opinion) phoned him and asked him not to contact Arday. This had a chilling effect > For all three reports, police chose to take no action (nonetheless it still had a chilling effect on speech). These are all three your own quotes from this thread. The last quote isn't even accurate because the police DID take action in the form of contacting the journalist and telling him to desist. | | |
| ▲ | amiga386 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I am in generally in favour of some sentiments you're expressing, but you're also wrong on the facts. If your facts are wrong, it harms everyone who shares your sentiments because you're arguing with verifiable bullshit. You're trying to argue that Jason Arday held journalists at bay by reporting them for harrassment, therefore the UK speech laws are bad because they let wrongdoers avoid scrutiny by making harrassment claims against their scrutinisers. That is incorrect. There was only one journalist, and Arday held him off by engaging private lawyers. The harrassment reporting did not stop the journalist. Arday falsely reported two people for harrassment to the Metropolitan Police, one professor in 2023 and one journalist in 2025. The (Devon and Cornwall) police declined to pursue the 2023 case. The (Metropolitan) police investigated the 2025 case for four months, then decided to take no action (no charge, arrest or caution). The investigating officer phoned the journalist to tell him the case was closed (they can do that). The fact that there had even been an investigation caused a chilling effect: https://www.timeshighereducation.com/opinion/i-was-reported-... > But were my enquiries grounds for a criminal complaint? That was hugely troubling to me as a reporter who specialises in examining issues of research integrity and ethics. I'd say that even in the professor's case, it could've had a chilling effect. If the police had interviewed anyone related to the professor, there could've been leaks and/or career-stunting rumours. The officer requested the journalist not contact Arday. That's overreach, and shouldn't have happened. The head of the Metropolitan police admitted the investigation should not have even been started. That's not the law at fault, that's shoddy policing: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0rd9y99grzo But ultimately, it did not "spike the story". That was 100% on the lawsuit. Both things are bad |
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| ▲ | pepperoni_pizza 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > That's textbook intimidation, Exactly. Every time I hear a story of "horrible abuses in UK where people get arrested for talking on the internet" it turns our they intimidated or scammed or bullied someone. I wonder why people keep lying about it. | |
| ▲ | Aurornis 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Your own quote clearly says it was “two separate social media posts”. The article I linked clearly says he was arrested for one count of stalking and another account of suspicion of possession of a firearm: > A week later, on August 23, the officers returned and arrested him on suspicion of possessing a firearm with intent to cause fear of violence and another allegation of stalking related to a photograph of a house that appeared on his social media. You’re trying hard to link the two as “textbook intimidation” but the firearm post that triggered this was just a vacation photo and post about his vacation. You’re being misleading by saying he “posted them to a website” without explaining that what you mean by “website” is that he posted them on his personal social media. > For all three reports, police chose to take no action (nonetheless it still had a chilling effect on speech). Incorrect to say the police “took no action”. They contacted the journalist and instructed him to desist. The police later admitted it was a mistake to pursue the case. It says all of this in the link you used: > Arday made a complaint about Grove to the Metropolitan Police, alleging harassment that was affecting his mental health; the police asked Grove to desist from further contact with Arday.[80] Mark Rowley, Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, later said that the complaint about Grove should not have been taken forward.[81] It’s confusing that you’re trying to claim the police “took no action” when they admitted fault for following through with the complaint and they told the reporter to desist. > Expensive lawyers making baseless threats work equally well in the US and UK to chill legal speech, it's not a policy issue. If the expensive lawyers are equal in the UK and US, then that’s not the important point of this story. It’s the part about him engaging the police and the police following through with it. I also strongly disagree that it’s equivalent in the US. That expensive legal firm would be utilizing the maximum extent of the laws available to them in the UK, which includes the very harassment laws we’re talking about! You can’t say it’s “not a policy issue” by pointing to literal lawyers who are using the law. | | |
| ▲ | amiga386 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > You can’t say it’s “not a policy issue” by pointing to literal lawyers who are using the law. It's not a UK speech policing policy issue, the topic of your post. The criminal law doesn't support Arday using false claims of harrassment to deter journalists. You could say it's a worldwide civil law policy issue in terms of barratry / SLAPPs / cost of litigation / etc. No country, certainly not the US, has sufficient protection for whistleblowers against well-resourced litigants, and it is they (not the UK criminal law) who are successfully chilling speech. | | |
| ▲ | Aurornis 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | > It's not a UK speech policing policy issue It's the thing we're talking about. The UK law was used to get police involved and the police told the journalist to desist. > You could say it's a worldwide civil law policy issue The fact that lawsuits exist everywhere does not make it equal everywhere. We're talking about the UK's specific laws. | | |
| ▲ | amiga386 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Here's the full text of what you said. It's what we're talking about: > There was also the tragic story of the Cambridge professor who was completely unqualified and had a fake life story. When journalists would get close to the story he would report them to the police for harassment to spike the stories. You don't mention the threat that civil lawsuits pose to speech at all. And yet it was the threat of a civil lawsuit that actually quelled speech here. You have no evidence that action A ("he would report them to the police for harassment") led to outcome B ("to spike the stories"). Jason Arday did not spike any journalist's story by reporting them for harrassment. He, or his universty, did spike the story by engaging reputation lawyers. He could do that in almost any country, including the US, despite its stronger free speech laws. Unless a US state has an effective anti-SLAPP law, it is very likely all that is needed to shut people up is to threaten a lawsuit they can't afford. The thing you want to be mad about -- the police unlawfully instructing a journalist not to contact someone -- is a bad thing, is not even legal (i.e. the UK state doesn't actually allow it, let alone condone it), and it had no effect on the journalist. They still wanted their story published. It was the private threat of a lawsuit that spiked it. | |
| ▲ | avianlyric 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | “Getting the police involved” is a lot less exciting in the UK compared to the US. Our police don’t have a nasty habit of getting scared in the dark and shooting anything that moves. Mostly because most officers in the UK don’t carry firearms, and the UK often struggles to recruit officers into firearms units because officers just don’t want to mess with guns. As a result getting the police involved is often little more than a slightly awkward chat at the front door where the officers politely ask you to stop being arsehole, but everyone knows the police are a bit limited in what they can actual do. Either because no crime has actually been committed, or because they don’t really have the time to properly investigate even if a crime had been committed. Actually getting arrested takes some effort. The police really don’t want to deal with all the paperwork and mess that comes afterwards if they can avoid it. |
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| ▲ | someonebaggy 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > arrested on... another [count] of suspicion of possession of a firearm: That's not how it works. You get arrested on suspicion, the cops figure out if you actually did it or not, once they know you did it they charge you with counts of actual offences (not suspicions). | | |
| ▲ | Aurornis 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | > > arrested on... another [count] of suspicion of possession of a firearm: > That's not how it works. You get arrested on suspicion, the cops figure out if you actually did it or not, once they know you did it they charge you with counts of actual offences (not suspicions). Isn’t that literally what the quote, which was from the article, says? It didn’t contain the word “count”. You added that. The quote says he was arrested on suspicion. | | |
| ▲ | someonebaggy 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | "account" appears to be a simple autocorrect typo of "count" since the other half of the sentence is about "count" | | |
| ▲ | Aurornis 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | No, I'm saying the word "count" doesn't appear in the quote in the article. This is the quote from the article: > > A week later, on August 23, the officers returned and arrested him on suspicion of possessing a firearm You falsely added "[count]" to the quote and then argued about the count, which isn't in the quote. | | |
| ▲ | someonebaggy 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Actually, here's what you said and I quoted: > The article I linked clearly says he was arrested for one count of stalking and another account of suspicion of possession of a firearm: |
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| ▲ | tigershark 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Are you really defending Arday harassing journalists through the police and being overjoyed because just this time the police was not overzealous enough to arrest them (very likely they were fine only thanks to the huge media attention)? Unbelievable. | | |
| ▲ | amiga386 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm not defending Arday at all. I'm pointing out OP's claims are bullshit. At no point did anyone "spike" stories because Arday called the police on them. OP appears to claim that involving the police is the way to get journalists off your tail. It isn't, and it didn't deter either the professors or the journalist. The much more effective way to get journalists off your tail, which OP didn't even mention, is lawyers. But that doesn't let OP rage against UK laws so he went with the bullshit claim instead. There was absolutely zero media attention at the time police processed Arday's complaint against professor David Harris, in 2023. They closed the complaint without taking action. The professor didn't even know he was being investigated. His colleague Martyn Hammersley then went over Arday's head straight to the faculty. So much for the police getting people off your case! In the case of the journalist Arday reported in 2025, police again did not arrest or charge him, but they (wrongly, in my opinion) phoned him and asked him not to contact Arday. This had a chilling effect and the police had no legal basis to direct him so. Again, this was long before any 2026 media attention. It wasn't media attention that saved these people, it was that what they did wasn't illegal. The police shouldn't have given Arday's claims as much merit as they did, but no matter what Arday said, there was no evidence of crime there, it was never going any further than that. Only once the deets about Arday were leaked by Cambridge faculty to Cofnas and he published them, and the media firestorm begain, did the details of the police phoning the journalist become known, and in reaction to that, the head of the police said that was clearly wrong and should not have happened: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0rd9y99grzo | |
| ▲ | Tanjreeve 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Well he's dead now in no small part because he was 100% correct that partisan activists amplified by friendly "journalists' would follow the usual playbook of creating a reality distortion field by repeatedly lying and republishing each others half truths and outright lies into a massive gish gallop. | | |
| ▲ | UltraSane 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | He is dead because he killed himself because his web of lies was unraveling. | | |
| ▲ | Tanjreeve 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Same question as always. What were the lies? Because all the ones I've seen were either found to be true or they were exaggerated versions of statements and then attacking that as a lie. Especially rich to talk about habitual liars when it's a bunch of British press outlets and activists accusing others of being liars. | | |
| ▲ | amiga386 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | https://gidmk.substack.com/p/the-jason-arday-saga-is-terribl... > 1 The Racism Of It All: It is not news when white men commit academic misconduct. It gets reported in a handful of stories, there’s a bit of media attention, but everyone quickly forgets about the problems. > 2 Arday Was Definitely Guilty: The second point is somehow even more frustrating. Yes, Jason Arday was hounded by a society that demands different standards for young Black men than white guys. Yes, the amount of scrutiny he received was obviously connected to the colour of his skin. But also, he definitely did plagiarize. And not just a little bit. His work is riddled with clear, obvious, and extensive theft from other published academic papers. > You do not need to trust race realists or other unpleasant people. Just download the thesis and check for yourself. It is clear that a significant portion of the thesis was copied directly from other people’s work. This is not in doubt, it’s not in question, and the fact that so many people online are arguing that the plagiarism charges are false because a university said so is deeply depressing. It’s arguably the worst case of plagiarism I’ve ever seen. > Whatever your thoughts on plagiarism, it’s clear that Arday’s work harmed very few people. As he himself said, “I didn't murder somebody”. If he hadn’t been a Black academic and a poster child for diversity at Cambridge university, we’d probably have never known his name. You sound like one of the Arday Truthers: https://archive.is/KkqkY > For some of Arday’s supporters, acknowledging that any of the media scrutiny was justified has become tantamount to siding with his “killers.” He is instead a martyr—the victim of a “lynching”—and the inconvenient fact of his fabulism must be tidied away from the virtual shrine. This is an emotional position rather than a rational one, and its very indefensibility makes it a greater demonstration of tribal loyalty. Insisting that the academic was completely innocent, in the face of all the evidence, sends a strong social signal that you hate the right-wing media and care about racism. > The postmortem airbrushing of Arday’s story also ignores how that story twisted and turned while he was alive. When The Guardian confronted him with the implausibility of some of his tall tales, Arday responded by editing them in real time: Yes, he had once claimed to have run 600 miles in six days, an exceptional feat for an endurance athlete, but what he actually meant was that he took daylong rest breaks in between. Yes, he had claimed to have raised more than £5 million for charity, but actually this was with the help of “many fundraising collectives” whose participants he could not name because they had signed nondisclosure agreements. As they might say on Reddit, "Everybody Sucks Here". Arday the fabulist and plagiarist, the academic institutions who didn't vet him because they were razzle-dazzled by his bullshit lifestory (then drop him like a stone when their attempts to keep his plagiarism hidden don't work any more), the popular press who are happy to amp up a public shaming for clicks and views, the anti-woke and the racists who say this just confirms what they thought about DEI, and the anti-anti-woke and anti-racists who will deny the bleeding obvious if it makes them appear virtuous to their peers. | | |
| ▲ | Tanjreeve 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Why would I read this aimless waffle when I asked a pretty specific question? | | |
| ▲ | UltraSane an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | It is actually the opposite of aimless waffle. It is well written and fair and accurate. | |
| ▲ | amiga386 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | That sounds like deflection. Step 1: put out the suggestion that the lies weren't lies Step 2: don't read the responses Job done! EDIT: I'll give you one set of lies. Is it "exaggerated versions of statements" or you just didn't see them? If I say I won the Nobel Peace Prize for inventing a cure for cancer, and I have no evidence of either, but I insist I did both and make up a lame excuse as to why you can't see my prize (it's away being washed today) or why you can't find my cure (the journal pretended someone else wrote the article because they're all against me, but trust me mate it was really me who wrote it) am I just making "exaggerated versions of statements" in your view? https://www.theguardian.com/education/ng-interactive/2026/au... > In a subsequent interview with the Guardian, Arday claimed to have been confronted at his faculty building on two separate occasions by a masked man threatening to harm him if he did not resign, and evading detection both times. On the second occasion Arday said the intruder produced a knife and threatened him with it. > The Guardian understands that after Arday reported the first intrusion to the university, enhanced CCTV was placed in the faculty and a panic alarm was installed in his office. The professor said he hit the panic alarm during the second confrontation, but that no one responded. It should have triggered an alarm alerting the faculty’s security team, all of whom were present at the time of the alleged incident. > The intruder was not picked up by CCTV on either occasion and no one in the faculty reported seeing anyone suspicious. Arday did not report either intrusion at the time, telling the Guardian that after the second incident he continued his working day and even conducted a PhD viva for a student less than two hours later. > He did not inform colleagues that a masked man with a knife was in the faculty building. > Arday confirmed in an interview with the Guardian that the “mutilated animals sent to his family home” mentioned in the open letter was a severed pig’s head, delivered in a large cardboard box to his parents’ home address in south London. He claimed to have intercepted the package and immediately thrown it away, only telling the police several months later. > In a subsequent interview he claimed the police investigated, checking with butchers in south London if they had sold a pig, eventually finding one that had sold a “whole hog” on the morning the head was left outside the family home. > When the Guardian checked those details with the local butchers Arday named, they said no police officer had come in to ask them about a pig. When asked if they were sure, the butcher said “that’s the kind of thing we’d remember”. > When the details Arday gave about the pig’s head investigation were checked by London’s Metropolitan police, the Guardian was told they were “categorically” incorrect and no investigation had taken place. > Arday had contacted the Met to lodge a complaint of harassment against Harris after his plagiarism allegations and, because he was based in Plymouth, the case was handed over to Devon and Cornwall police. Correspondence seen by the Guardian confirmed that the force declined to pursue a case against Harris. > Arday took no photographs of the bullet, the banana, the corrosive substance or the pig’s head. The only other people who saw any of the items were close family members, who told the Guardian Arday had shown them the bullet and the “poison”. Arday could produce no messages from the time in which he discussed any of the items with friends, family, colleagues or the police. > There are many examples of prominent black figures being intimidated [...] But the abuse and harassment Arday has outlined would be some of the most extreme any academic has been subjected to in the UK. When Arday was asked about his claims by the Guardian, he stood by them. “To be honest with you, I thought you’d just believe me,” he said. “Why would I lie?” He would be jeopardising his career. |
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| ▲ | someonebaggy 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's intimidation in the form of speech. Enforcing it is enforcing speech. |
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| ▲ | dgroshev 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | UK is substantially more democratic than the US. - We just changed our PM, despite his party having a historic majority. - Parliament routinely rebels against the government, and backbenchers have a lot of say about the business of government. - We have a number of upstart parties; they might be populist, but at least it's not a two-party-forever system. - We had a coalition government just a few years ago. - We changed our constitution a few months ago (abolishing hereditary peers) and it was just another news among many. - We ejected one of the previous PMs for having a party during a lockdown, with a massive scandal before that when the PM accepted a gift of some wallpaper. Compare and contrast to the ossified and corrupt American system, where the president is openly enriching himself and his family and friends, and there's nothing threatening the presidency. The last amendment was passed half a century ago, and there's zero hope for reform. Democracy is a living, breathing system of government, not a number of checkboxes like "can I shoot a gun for fun" or "can I call someone N-word online". It's important to see the forest for the trees. | | |
| ▲ | 4ndrewl 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > We ejected one of the previous PMs for having a party during a lockdown Weirdly that never happened, but that's how many people remember it. He was ejected because he lost the support of his ministers (most of who resigned over a period of a few weeks) after he had made them to go out and lie to the public on his behalf in the case of Chris Pincher MP. | | |
| ▲ | dgroshev 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | To be entirely fair, that was a combination of many things (Pincher, wallpaper, partygate, covid deaths, covid deals, brexit, etc). The ministers are also MPs, and they want to be reelected. By that point it was clear that the partygate is not going away, so they needed a scapegoat. The point still stands though. A populist PM who did a tiny bit of mismanagement and corruption (relative to his current peer in the US) was forced to resign. Trump isn't. |
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| ▲ | tomp 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > - We just changed our PM non-democratically. there was no election. the ruling party simply made a decision itself. Just like in China. | | |
| ▲ | dgroshev 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | A representative democracy is still a democracy. The ruling party has changed just two years ago. Hardly China, is it | | |
| ▲ | AlexandrB 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't get why you're making excuses for this stuff. Trump is one kind of bad, but almost all western governments are increasingly unaccountable to their voters. And these are usually the folks that claim to be defenders of democracy. The hypocrisy is breathtaking. | | |
| ▲ | dgroshev 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > almost all western governments are increasingly unaccountable to their voters In this country, the government with a vast majority couldn't even withdraw a small cash payment from better off pensioners without a rebellion from their own MPs. Those generalising takes are entirely disconnected from the political reality of the UK outside of twitter. | |
| ▲ | tavavex 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | They're making excuses for this stuff because the wording used around it in this comment thread has been quite hysterical. For all the problems plaguing modern democracies, leadership elections are not one of them. In representative democracies, the leader of the party isn't god like how a president is in non-parliamentary systems. The role has some additional powers, but it doesn't get its own branch of government. Most importantly, party leaders are still MPs who were democratically elected by their constituents - the party leader designation is an internal role. You can even affect it by becoming a party member in most cases. This is incredibly mundane stuff that has existed for decades to centuries, so people here immediately jumping in to talk about China or say that this is somehow worse than Trump just seems like enraged flailing in an attempt to portray many other democracies not being exactly like the US as horrific injustice. |
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| ▲ | sippingabonedry 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You left a few items off the list, for instance: - We can't beat off to porn anymore without a VPN, because our nanny government has blocked it. - Our government sends hilarious fines to foreign websites when it disapproves of their moderation. | | |
| ▲ | OkayPhysicist 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | That's not necessarily evidence of undemocratic processes. One of the big downsides of democracy is that it gives the absolute knuckledraggers the same vote as anybody else. It seems to me like the UK has the same problem as the US: they have a revealed preference for autocratic policies, because no one gets excited about the government apparently doing nothing. | | |
| ▲ | PorciiVorbesc 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | >because no one gets excited about the government apparently doing nothing. Well yes. Precisely because the government was "doing nothing" while issues that plagued the voting population like migration, wealth disparity and affordability crisis were constantly growing for the past ~15 years until it reached breaking point. Hence why people affected by this are now voting to give the new extremist parties a chance at the helm, because just voting more "doing nothing" by the parties who stood by and enabled this, just guarantees the same issues aggravating. So then what else do you expect to happen at the elections? | | |
| ▲ | pocksuppet 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Can you elaborate on "migration" being an "issue that plagues the voting population"? | | |
| ▲ | PorciiVorbesc an hour ago | parent [-] | | What of that was unclear to you? A lot of voters disliked the effects migration had on their country, being also one of the reason why they voted for Brexit, and why the vote far right parties right now. |
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| ▲ | someonebaggy 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I expect a variety of more extremist parties - some offering to kick out the immigrants, others offering to delete all regulations and let the free market prevail, others offering to delete billionaire wealth. Like in the Berlin mayor vote this week, where both the extreme left seize-billionaire-wealth party and the extreme right ban-immigrants party both won sizeable shares (in fact the extreme left party won a plurality) | | |
| ▲ | PorciiVorbesc 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | >Like in the Berlin mayor vote this week, where both the extreme left seize-billionaire-wealth party And how is Berlin planning to seize the wealth of billionaires? Because I've seen this play out before, where every supposed promise to tax the billionaires, just ends up as another tax burden on the working class high earners and entrepreneurs who already pay the highest tax rates and are the furthest thing possible from billionaires, but still gets political support from the unwashed masses since it's entirely envy driven. | | |
| ▲ | someonebaggy 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | How is the ban immigrants party going to ban immigrants? How is the delete regulations party going to delete regulations? Last time the extreme left party had any power, it set a city law saying rent couldn't be higher than a certain amount, but the landlords sued the city government in federal court, and won because apparently there is a constitutional right for landlords to collect as much money as possible. |
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| ▲ | RobotToaster 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > despite his party having a historic majority. 33% of the vote is a historically low majority, so I guess you're technically correct. | | |
| ▲ | dgroshev 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | As you're well aware, we have a first-past-the-post system and what matters in this system is the number of MPs. | | |
| ▲ | RobotToaster 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | A system where the government is chosen by 33% of voters has no legitimate claim to be democracy, that is, rule by the people. | | |
| ▲ | Analemma_ 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This is not an actionable claim. What are you supposed to do in a multi-party system if nobody wins a majority and voter turnout is 60%? Just have anarchy until someone wins an outright majority? | | | |
| ▲ | foldr 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That's a substantially larger vote share than any other party: https://electionresults.parliament.uk/general-elections/6 The electoral college would throw up equally weird results if the US didn't have a fully two-party system. (How's that working out?) |
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| ▲ | MadrasThorn 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | UK does not have freedom of expression. Both the UK and the US fail in rule of law regarding "all citizens and leaders must be equal before the law, supported by strong anti-corruption measures." UK has stated separation of powers but the crown reportedly nudged Starmer to step down. The king is the one that can formally appoint government following elections. Prince Andrew had and other royals have control over military forces in the UK, canada, australia, nz, ect. You can hem and haw all you want but the crown has constitutional and ceremonial control over the armed forces. The King gives 'the kings speech' which is used to set the governments legislative agenda to parliment. The king also gives royal assent to bills passed by parliment. Black spider memos The king also steers diplomatic efforts abroad. every single aspect of UKs democracy can be cut by the King whenever he wants. | | |
| ▲ | spiralpolitik 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The UK constitutional system is built around mutually assured destruction. If one part doesn't follow convention, the whole system will collapse and everyone loses. Yes, the monarch can in theory override the government by blocking legislation, but won't because one time a monarch did that, he ended up with his head cut off. If a monarch ever did that in modern times, Britain would quickly be a republic. Everyone follows convention and stays in their lane and doesn't rock the boat. The last time a bill didn't get royal assent was in 1708. It simply hasn't happened since. 'The kings speech' is written by the government usually based on the manifesto they were elected on. The monarch just reads it. The monarch's role in modern times is to advise the prime minister and act as continuity advisor across governments. While the monarch may offer commentary on legislation, they won't block it, and the government is free to ignore it. Same with the armed forces. It's ministers that control the army not the monarch. In modern Britain, the monarch's role is purely ceremonial. The monarch cannot order the armed forces into conflict. Usually legislation gets blocked in the House Of Lords (the unelected chamber) which is why a lot constitutional reform is focused on cleaning that up, but it's game of inches because neither party wants to lose influence. While the constitutional system may make it seem like the monarch has a lot of hard power, in reality they have none, and since the civil war can't do anything without the approval of Parliament. | | |
| ▲ | someonebaggy 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Last time I'm aware the monarch did something, it was the firing of the entire Australian parliament and calling a snap election. Which is quite a sensible thing to do if parliament is completely jammed, and since it was reasonably sensible and popular in the situation it happened, nothing happened to the monarch. (Imagine if someone had the power to do that to Congress! Maybe they'd actually do stuff again, and we'd have to rename them to Progress) This is an alright use of a monarch IMO. | | |
| ▲ | spiralpolitik 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes. This fits with the UK monarch's modern role which is to ensure continuity of government. The UK example would be if the UK government lost a vote of confidence, the monarch might ask the opposition parties to see if they could form a government that could pass a vote of confidence to avoid a general election. Although parliamentary math makes such a scenario unlikely in practice. On the UK end I don't think the monarch can sack the Prime Minister. While the UK monarch could strongly suggest to a Prime Minister that it's time to resign. Usually when a Prime Minister gets to that point, it's usually the end of the road and they won't last much longer anyway even if they pushed forward. The monarch has a lot of soft power which under the modern system is usually deployed to ensure continuity of government rather than in a controlling manner. (The Australia, Canada, etc constitutions gives the monarch different powers than the UK and it's usually delegated to whoever is the governor for that nation) |
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| ▲ | avianlyric 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yeah, I don’t think you have any understanding of how the crown interacts with the rest of the UK government. There are some oddities, but the idea that the crown could actually exercise any of their powers, without causing a constitutional crisis, and UK rapidly becoming a republic, is farcical. > The King gives 'the kings speech' which is used to set the governments legislative agenda to parliment. You’re aware that the kings speech is written by the government, not the crown. It’s how the government lays out its parliamentary agenda to parliament, the civil service and the country at large. Heck there’s a whole ritual around the crown having to beg permission to enter the commons etc to emphasise the point that crown enters and speaks at the pleasure of the commons. > The king also steers diplomatic efforts abroad. No, the king is given instructions by the foreign office on what he’s expected to help with. Every trip and meeting the king does is checked and cleared by the uk government, and they can and have vetoed trips before. > every single aspect of UKs democracy can be cut by the King whenever he wants. You should watch the Jonny English movies, they’re a great documentary on how this could happen. | |
| ▲ | dgroshev 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | What is the actual purpose of freedom of expression in a democracy? Is it being able to call people N-word online with no repercussions, or is it being able to organise, form political parties, and change the country? If it's the former, then indeed the US has more of it. If it's the latter, the UK has three new major parties with very different policies that openly and vocally oppose Labour, Conservatives, and Libdems. Mainstream media regularly broadcasts their views. I might strongly disagree with those views, but these parties are clearly freely operating political organisations. How is the US doing with viable non-Dem and non-Republican parties? I won't comment on your Crown conspiracy theories. | | |
| ▲ | zer00eyz 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > What is the actual purpose of freedom of expression in a democracy? Is it being able to call people N-word online with no repercussions, or is it being able to organise, form political parties, and change the country? What is the difference between the two? Because you're going to make a cultural argument and NOT a legal one. The C-word is one you throw around (and the Aussies to) but would cause an American woman be pretty upset. You seem perfectly fine with its use, but we frown on both terms socially but they are strictly legal. Defamation VS political speech would be a better comparison, and I could make the argument that Americans being more lenient are better off with our freedoms. | | |
| ▲ | dgroshev 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Being as charitable as possible: there is a lot of difference between - swear words - slurs - speech enabling political organising …which is not a matter of "upset". |
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| ▲ | OkayPhysicist 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | From your list of purposes about freedom of expression, you're missing "the ability to criticize powerful individuals". If you cannot prove, in a court of law, that your statements are 100% true, you can absolutely lose your shirt in a defamation suit in the UK. It's so egregious that the US had to pass a law specifically shielding American free speech from the UK's libel laws. (to their credit, in 2013 they improved their laws substantially, such that you can no longer be found liable for provably true statements) In the US, in contrast, you can say pretty much anything, as long as it plausibly enough true that the plaintiff can't prove you don't believe it. "Donald Trump is a child rapist" is an example of speech that would not be protected in UK courts. Sure, I can point at all his visits to Epstein's Island, and his running child pageant shows, and complaints made against him to establish that it's not unreasonable to believe it, but I cannot prove in a court of law that he did it. So in the UK, he would win a defamation suit against me. On the flip side, here in the States that is quite safe to say in a public forum. It's quite difficult to prove a negative, and even if they passed that bar, they would then need to prove to a court that I did not believe that statement. |
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| ▲ | TheOtherHobbes 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That's government theatre, not democracy. Here's the reality:
https://x.com/flying_rodent/status/2102527889556291773 And also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Wilson_plot_allegations | | |
| ▲ | dgroshev 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Calling big changes in power, substantive shifts in policy, and constitutional changes "government theatre" to then link to "Flying_Rodent" on twitter as "reality" is just comically unselfaware. | | |
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| ▲ | drnick1 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | And yet, you were ordered to stay home during coronavirus and threatened with fines if you did not comply. Also, the Internet is censored by your ISPs, you increasingly need to prove your age/identity to do anything online, and it isn't clear for how long you will be able to work around that with VPNs. Apart from that, the UK truly looks like a democratic paradise. | |
| ▲ | UltraSane 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Parliament has absolutely no constitutional limits on it. It can and has made retroactive laws that are not allowed in the US. | | |
| ▲ | dgroshev 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Parliament does have constitutional limits on it (for example, see timetabling powers or Erskine May), even if it can't pass acts that will bind future Parliaments. The constitution being (largely) unwritten and changeable doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The result is substantially more democratic, as per the list above. | | |
| ▲ | UltraSane 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Please explain the constitutional limits to Parliament in more detail. The result seems substantially more chaotic. And then there is the fact that the entire legal frame work is based on The Crown. If the king or queen killed someone they would have to prosecute themselves. This is the exact opposite of democracy. | | |
| ▲ | dgroshev 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Parliament is not in control of its own timetable, for one. Bit of a restriction on exercising its sovereignty, innit. And yes democracies can be chaotic. It's entirely mad to me that I can make a list of easily verifiable, massively important examples of democratic processes in this country in the last few years and someone would just come up with a hypothetical like "but what if King kills someone" like it's somehow not just equal but has more weight than the list. Mad | | |
| ▲ | zer00eyz 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > "but what if King kills someone" Anne Boleyn, Catherine Howard would like a word. | | |
| ▲ | foldr 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | What would the argument even be here? That the UK can never be a democracy because of what Henry VIII did in the 16th century? | | |
| ▲ | zer00eyz an hour ago | parent [-] | | No. But processes that exist to preserve democracy that arent governed by that democracy are problematic. Saying the "king would never do..." when a king has makes the argument silly. The UK is not alone in this - a great example is the filibuster in the us (a senate rule). |
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| ▲ | UltraSane an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm sorry but someone claiming to have such an amazingly democratic government when they have a monarch who has absolute personal immunity from civil and criminal proceedings under UK law and whose face is on all the bank notes is a bit silly. This is the least democratic thing possible. Queen Elizabeth used Queen's Consent many many times to prevent or modify laws she didn't like. An investigation by The Guardian revealed that more than 1,000 parliamentary bills were subjected to Queen's Consent or Prince's Consent during Queen Elizabeth II's reign. The British government feels like a delicate standoff between Parliament and the crown. |
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| ▲ | AlexandrB 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > We just changed our PM, despite his party having a historic majority. Yeah? The country got to vote for the PM? I don't recall there being a national election. Having a bunch of party insiders replace the leader who won an election with an unelected one is the opposite of democracy. | | |
| ▲ | dgroshev 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | We have a representative democracy, not a direct one. I invite you to consider the rest of the points, too. | | |
| ▲ | AlexandrB 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | The leader of the party stepping down (for non-medical reasons) should trigger an election. The fact that it doesn't is scandalous. We have the same problems in Canada where we elected a minority Liberal government that has now magically turned into a majority due to legislators switching parties. How can someone flip from the opposition party to the ruling one and still claim to be representing the will of the people who voted for them? | | |
| ▲ | dgroshev 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Funny thing is, your desired system is a constitutional change and it's entirely feasible in the UK if there's enough support for it. Which is exactly my point. |
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| ▲ | MrBuddyCasino 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Quite the opposite, the problem is democracy: "In democracy, one side always wins and makes its opponents illegal." “The claim to legality renders every rebellion and counter-measure an injustice and a legal violation or ‘illegality.’ If legality and illegality can be arbitrarily at the disposal of the majority, then the majority can, above all, declare their domestic competitors illegal, that is, hors-la-loi… Whoever controls 51 percent would be able legally to render the remaining 49 percent illegal… and to treat partisan opponents like common criminals, who are then perhaps reduced to kicking their boots against the locked door.” Carl Schmitt, Legality and Legitimacy https://x.com/Tool_Being/status/2102495046260150596 | | |
| ▲ | asah 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | this is not limited to democracy - every form of government does this to varying degree, and in fact democracy tends to be (perhaps marginally) better than say autocracy. as is often said with a sigh, "democracy is the worst form of government, except for every other." to me, democracy is really about giving the masses enough feeling of agency, because the alternatives are either revolution and/or disengagement / low productivity / low creativity, and both are "bad for business" i.e. cannot compete with democracies. China will be an interesting test of this theory. Notably, in China they have a terrific education system and the government is able to attract/retain smart ambitious people. Another test will be the power of governments to thwart revolutions using digital and kinetic assymmetry. The masses have individual hackers and pea shooters and the government has digital armies and autonomous drone swarms. In turn, since revolution is off the table, governments don't need the overhead of democracy. In the US, we see this with the rise of Executive Orders for example. | | |
| ▲ | MrBuddyCasino 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | > to me, democracy is really about giving the masses enough feeling of agency, because the alternatives are either revolution and/or disengagement / low productivity / low creativity, and both are "bad for business" i.e. cannot compete with democracies. I'll pick this one because it is the easiest to refute (but the others are wrong, too). What form of government was predominant during the most creative and productive periods in recent history, namely the industrial revolution and the Italian Rennaissance? You even mention China yourself, but do not update your priors. | | |
| ▲ | throwawayqqq11 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | You cannot compare these eras, where one offers a zeitgeist of scientific progress and opportunity and the other of global scale problems met with ignorance and stagnation. The tides will turn in china, once that positive notion gets suffocated by misaligned elites. |
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| ▲ | smolder 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The problem is not democracy, it's corruption fueled by sociopaths who insist on controlling everything and buy politicians. The problem with everything in society is that many people are fundamentally broken. Plenty of people aren't broken and can get along without committing crimes or plotting to take over the world. | |
| ▲ | vkou 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The magic of democracy isn't that it promises good governance, the magic of it is that it provides a clear avenue for a peaceful transfer of power that is exercised every few years. Most functioning democracies require more than 51% of a senate and six justices and a criminal head of state to completely unravel. | | |
| ▲ | MrBuddyCasino 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | > The magic of democracy isn't that it promises good governance, the magic of it is that it provides a clear avenue for a peaceful transfer of power that is exercised every few years. We are currently witnessing the dismantling of this illusion. The reason western governments increasingly engage in lawfare against the opposition is that for the first time since the post-WWII order, they are threatened by a real regime change. | | |
| ▲ | vkou 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | > for the first time since the post-WWII order, they are threatened by a real regime change. It's only new if you are blind to post-WWII history. In the western world alone, there was no shortage of incredibly vicious fights with communist/socialist groups in in post-war Europe (Most prominently in Italy and Greece), to say nothing of the various domestic decolonisation movements (The British and French governments were scared shitless of them), secessionist movements in Quebec, Spain, that entire thing in North Ireland (the understatement of the century), the Civil Rights and universal suffrage movement in the US, collapse of prominent dictatorships in Portugal and Spain... State-threatening social upheaval is nothing new, we just have a particularly shitty flavour of it right now, as fascism and fascist-adjacent movements are currently waxing. | | |
| ▲ | MrBuddyCasino 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | You are mixing every western conflict you've heard of in one big bucket, stir vigorously and call it an argument. What do wars of religion (which happen under most forms of government, except perhaps communism) have to do with democracy? What is "the Civil Rights and universal suffrage movement in the US" if not a continuation of the leftist politics that Roosevelt started? What has the authoritarian Franco regime got to do with "democracy"? None of this makes any sense. | | |
| ▲ | vkou 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Most of the events I've listed cannot be described as 'one side wins and makes the other illegal'. Many of them ended with compromises, or partial success, or complete success, but the losers were not banished from public life. (They just held on to coalitions of waning influence. Some of them are resurging.) > What is "the Civil Rights and universal suffrage movement in the US" if not a continuation of the leftist politics that Roosevelt started The CRM was bottom-up, with personalities like Malcolm X and MLK both scaring the shit out of the government, due to their ability to mobilize millions of people. Did they win and make the other side illegal? No. Did the dipshits they fought win and make them illegal? I'd say no to that, as well. |
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