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▲ haritha-j 9 hours ago

I don't think Nokia deserves all this hate. Sure, they made mistakes, but it wasn't entirely unfeasible to assume that the mobile phone market had matured in terms of features, and the next big thing was going to be "phones as fashion statements." When you think about it, prior to the phone, everything people carried on them everyday was some sort of fashion statement. Clothes, glasses, jewllery, watches, handbags, backpacks etc. I think they assumed that the phone was like the watch; peaked functionally, but room to grow in terms of form.

▲onli 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

And in a way that actually happened with the iPhone. Yes, that was also a functionality boost, but it was also a fashion object. I did a (for university, small scale) observation study at the time and found it notable that some young women started wearing their iPhone on their purse while leaving the bus - that was a shift, a thing formerly seen as a functional device became a fashion accessory.

Think about how different the target group for blackberry for example had been, or how little glamour the (mostly) cheap and small nokia phones of the past years had been.

▲creaturemachine 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Nothing tops the middle-aged man I spotted in the iphone 3g days, sporting his on his belt, screen out and always on to show off the fact that he had all the apps.

▲eru 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> some young women started wearing their iPhone on their purse while leaving the bus

Sorry, what does this mean? Could you explain?

▲onli 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Argh, I translated that wrongly. Replace purse with handbag.

It seemed important. Instead of hiding a technical artefact it was presented to outside world by someone obviously placing a lot of importance on their looks.

▲watercast 3 hours ago | parent [-]

The translation seems fine - purse and handbag are rather interchangeable. I imagine GP and I are both just confused about what it means to wear a phone on a bag. Like there was a see through window in the bag that the phone was placed behind? Or the phone could be adhered to the bag somehow? I am struggling to come up with possibilities. Interested in what you found!

▲onli 3 hours ago | parent [-]

OK :) It was just a really big purse. I don't think the phone was clipped on or the purse see-through, just that it must have been stable enough to carry the phone a little bit when placed on top of it.

I remember specifically being surprised that she didn't put the phone inside the bag.

▲watercast an hour ago | parent [-]

That makes sense, thanks!

▲PorciiVorbesc 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>I don't think Nokia deserves all this hate.

Where do you see the hate? Everyone seems to have fond memories of Nokia, on the HW, camera and especially their adventurous fashion and industrial design side that's sorely missing these days in the boring smartphone world.

They didn't fail because it was hated, they failed because Apple and Android beat them fair and square before they could adapt to the new world driven by taking a 30% cut of sales of high-level apps in walled garden apps-store ecosystems, instead of one driven by sales of embedded hardware in plastic cases with no money on app sales.

▲alightsoul 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Nokia didn't adapt because of cost cutting. Their engineers wanted to get into smartphones asap. Android could have died at the hands of Symbian which phone manufacturers preferred, but it was led by nokia and it was fragile

▲qingcharles an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Did they want to get into smartphones? I worked for Nokia somewhere in 2004-2006, designing music software for their latest prototypes. I don't remember anyone I spoke to at Nokia seeing the iPhone coming. There were other things that did bits of the iPhone, but nothing as slick and finished. Nokia were bad at software, honestly. They were outsourcing all their "1st party" apps to random dev shops who didn't get enough support and technical docs from the mothership to really make their apps work well. And every dev outfit had their own design ideas and design language. Apple vertically-integrated everything and shipped a really polished-looking product and made Nokia look pretty dumb, IMO.

▲rickdeckard 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

With all possible love for Symbian, but no.

Symbian wasn't designed for low latency input, and the entire S60 app ecosystem on top of it was designed for button-control.

The whole attempt of Nokia to somehow transform S60 into a iOS competitor was visible in the Nokia 5800. It was the best possible solution to somehow bring the S60 apps to a touch interface, and it was terrible.

Not terrible because they cut cost, but because the foundation was wrong.

In my observervation, Nokia also didn't adapt because of cost-cutting. Like all vendors at that time, they didn't believe that the consumer would be willing to sacrifice

1. Battery runtime

2. Durability

3. Tactile user-input

just for a slim, fashionable and snappy Device.

For years after the iPhone, they tried to answer it while preserving those 3 aspects. Don't add a stronger CPU, don't add glass but higher quality plastic, find a solution to have buttons AND a large screen.

Always building a phone, while Apple built a pocket computer.

That said, Apple was incredibly lucky that the early jailbreak and App-hacking community forced them to create an App store.

Noone had a Linux-based consumer OS with 3rd party apps, because it was wasteful for a phone. Suddenly the iPhone became a Smartphone, and there was no OS on the market to match it.

▲PorciiVorbesc 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>Android could have died at the hands of Symbian which phone manufacturers preferred

Do you have a source for this? I think phone manufacturers prefer whatever sells best, has lowest cost and highest margins, preferably all at once.

And compared to Android, Symbian lagged on all those fronts. At its origins it was still a low-level embedded OS that was forced to mutate into an app-based OS and it showed in UX sluggishness, the convoluted soruce-code, dated build toolchain that took days to compile, and in the lack of cheap and easy ways for indie devs to develop and ship apps to consumers. By the time Symbian opened its source code and app build tools it was too late to compete with Android and iOS.

▲izacus an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I dunno, I was a mobile developer at that time and moved from Symbian to Android/iOS and I didn't have a feeling Nokia engineering leads had any idea what they're doing either.

They tried to persuade us to use Qt to write apps (as alternative to iOS)... and they haven't shipped a single phone with Qt available as toolkit. They told us they might ship an update for N95 and perhaps one other model to pre install the library. At the time when the had literally hundreds of phones.

When we finally put an app on their store, they failed to approve it in 6 months (!). Apparently because we chose the whole Europe as launch target so each country's Nokia office had to approve it separately. Silly us.

Afterwards we moved to Android (1.5, with 1.6 coming) and iPhoneOS.

▲itsamario 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I noticed nokia pop up in telecom infrastructure around the same time I noticed nokia phone users using something else.

My guess is they didn't realize what telecom was preparing for and decided a foothold in that industry was an investment in telephone future.

▲rickdeckard 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Like Ericsson and Alcatel, Nokia originally only built the phones to sell the infrastructure.

They pushed devices with new telecom features into the market to create the benefit for carriers to buy new infrastructure, e.g. "with this new revision of GSM, devices can negotiate the polling period with the network to double the battery runtime. But only if you have the infra to actually answer the device."

▲motionlessveloc 13 minutes ago | parent [-]

Citation needed. Nokia Networks and Nokia Mobile Phones (NMP) were run like entirely separate kingdoms within Nokia and their conflicts were legendary.

It's often forgotten that Microsoft didn't buy "Nokia", they bought the NMP division, and the Networks bit is alive and kicking to this day.

▲wil421 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

They were doing phone switching in the 70s. The Nokia DX 200 had a couple of firsts on the wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_DX_200