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matchbok3 12 hours ago

Do you blame Trump or the democrats who force candidates like Harris or Clinton as choices? The blame lies just as much with those who have an entirely unpopular view of how the country should function, forcing those in the middle to Trump/etc.

Of course, much of this is due to continued polarization, notably in cities where socialism has grown popular and in the rural areas, where MAGA is rampant.

root_axis 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Do I blame the people with all the power or the people with none? Hmm.

matchbok3 12 hours ago | parent [-]

Figuring out how we got here is how we figure out how to get out of here.

root_axis 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

What is there to figure out? Elections have consequences and the country is learning that the hard way... again.

krapp 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

How we got here is Obama got elected and white people lost their goddamn minds about it.

fnordpiglet 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Clinton, who won the majority of votes or Harris who in a few months forced Trump to a plurality win?

Both were admittedly weak and forced, but Clinton would have won had any one of number of factors been different, and Harris walked into a tire fire and wasn’t the right candidate no matter what.

Democrats certainly need to field a better slate, but the fact people voted for self immolation can’t be attributed to a lesser of two evils argument - because Trump was never a compelling leader, and he has never been popular - hence his inability to ever secure a majority and operating the two most unpopular presidencies in modern history. He was voted into power by people who were sold on “at least he’s different,” which is more of an idiocratic solution to the current politic than anything else.

The answer is as the article says, it’s both national suicide and murder by the administration. There is no point in second guessing it, a technical victory and a plurality chose a national policy of global stupidity, taking a wrecking ball to the complex international system.

The hope I hold is this weakens the presidency irrevocably as Congress takes control again and places the executive in its proper functionary role. It’s abdication over history as Washingtonian presidents set a higher and higher bar of relative trustworthiness was fraught and stupid, and is IMO the actual manifestation of exceptionalism. And we f’ed around and found out, as MAGA is so fond of.

tencentshill 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

America hasn't seen a socialist yet. They would probably kill them in the street on election day.

virgildotcodes 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ah yes, everything Trump does is actually other people's fault.

Take the criticism and pressure off the abuser, and point it at their opponents.

This talking point keeps getting pushed around on social media and I can't help but think it's manufactured and promulgated by right wing entities.

matchbok3 12 hours ago | parent [-]

Nope. Just people who want candidates who can beat terrible people like Trump. It really isn't that hard. Biden did it.

We live in a two party system. Winning elections is important. Fielding left-wing candidates with no accomplishments makes Trump happen. It's not that complicated.

krapp 12 hours ago | parent | next [-]

>Fielding left-wing candidates with no accomplishments makes Trump happen. It's not that complicated.

Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State and a Senator from New York, while Kamala Harris was a District Attorney and Attorney General, and then Senator for California before serving as Vice President.

Also only in the fetid delirium of Republicans and Trumpists are either of them even remotely left-wing.

matchbok3 12 hours ago | parent [-]

The typical American views a businessman who built (and lied and stole) a company as more experienced than senator who signs mostly bills that rename post offices.

The Democrats continue to insist that this isn't the case. And keep losing.

krapp 11 hours ago | parent [-]

So the typical American, when selecting for a political job, holds a man with no political experience but who was so corrupt and inept as a businessman he managed to bankrupt a casino in higher esteem than candidates with actual success and experience in the field selected for?

Fine. The typical American is an idiot and they get what they deserve, then.

>The Democrats continue to insist that this isn't the case. And keep losing.

It shouldn't be the case, the Democrats are correct (at least about that, although I suspect they never actually "insisted" on anything of the sort,) Kamala Harris and Hillary Clinton were more qualified than Trump and deserved to win, and I hope this whole clownshow of a country burns to the ground.

I leave the floor to you, matchbok3. I've exposed myself to Hacker News for too long and I need time in the screaming box.

lovich 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Hillary Clinton, and Kamala “Copmala” Harris were left wing candidates with no experience?

How do you justify that statement at all? Especially when you can point to Trump as a candidate with no experience who won.

matchbok3 12 hours ago | parent [-]

She was perceived by middle America as a left-wing candidate coming from a left-wing state.

Not really sure what you are arguing. The polls all showed this.

lovich 7 hours ago | parent [-]

> She

I mentioned two people the same as you, differentiate between them please

> was perceived by middle America as a left-wing candidate coming from a left-wing state.

Thank you for explaining one half of your statement, how do you explain the “no accomplishments” part of your statement?

If you are going to rely on polls again then I’ll ask in advance how reality matters at all and it isn’t just down to vibes?

mitxela 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Given a choice between Trump and Clinton, or Trump and Harris, the best choice is extremely obvious. A sack of pet rocks would do better than either Clinton or Harris. That doesn't mean Trump would do better than them.