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| ▲ | bryant 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Not opining on this one way or another, but the post buries the lede a bit with a one liner that explains where it's coming from, saying that this is all: > reasonable evidence that their influence isn't prevalent because they're right, and that they would have ulterior motives for continuing to preach that the world is coming to an end even if evidence showed otherwise. | | |
| ▲ | amanaplanacanal 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | So how they enjoy their sex lives is dependant on continuing to preach AI catastrophism? I don't buy it. Lots of poly folks out here that probably don't care much about AI one way or another. | | |
| ▲ | tsimionescu 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | No one is claiming that all poly people have some ties to the AI community. They make a claim about a specific community in San Francisco, that is tied together by a mix of AI doomerism and sexual relations. And it's not at all surprising or some farfetched claim that people who enjoy having sex with someone might adopt their ideas, at least publicly, for fear of losing that sexual connection. | | |
| ▲ | deinonychus a day ago | parent [-] | | >And it's not at all surprising or some farfetched claim that people who enjoy having sex with someone might adopt their ideas, at least publicly, for fear of losing that sexual connection. am i naive? in the direction you pose this, i can't imagine it's that common and if that happens i don't feel sorry for our imagined victim. being a bay area guy who attends so many orgies that AI doomerism rubs off on him? and he keeps spreading it to other people and that some substantial bulk of doomerism is due to this mechanism such that it voids the ideological purity of doomerism? i'm not a bay area guy and i haven't attended these orgies but i hope they have other shit to talk about at the orgies than AI if the relationship is flipped - being genuinely interested in the theory but then being roped into weird sex shit that you didn't ask for, sure that that sounds predatory. a sex cult where AI is instrumental, rather than an AI cult where sex is instrumental. it would be more remarkable imo but i don't know if anyone is saying out loud that's what's happening. |
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| ▲ | Sander_Marechal 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yeah it is. If they stop preaching AI doomerism then they're out of the cult and won't get invited to orgies anymore. | | |
| ▲ | jaycroft a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Hate to break it to you, but I don't think the AI doomers have a monopoly on orgies. You name the political / belief system and I'll find an orgy for you by 10pm. | | | |
| ▲ | thevinter 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Are you implying that every rationalist that preaches AI doomerism gets invited to orgies? | | |
| ▲ | MelonArmiger 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Isn't one of them going around offering people "reverse gangbangs" to resign from Anthropic? | |
| ▲ | tsimionescu 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | No, just the ones that are part of this specific community described in the blog post. | | |
| ▲ | Kinrany a day ago | parent [-] | | "Mostly" in the title implies otherwise. | | |
| ▲ | tsimionescu a day ago | parent [-] | | The title is senstaionalist. The actual content of the article refers to a specific community, including Eliezer Yudkowsky, Aella, and others. |
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| ▲ | watwut 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | No, he is saying that if they stop preaching it, they stop being invited. A -> B does not imply B -> A. | | |
| ▲ | Viliam1234 a day ago | parent [-] | | So even those who were never invited are afraid that they won't get invited anymore? |
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| ▲ | vintermann 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Heh, if you think this post buries the lede, have you ever read anything by the community in question? They seem incapable of saying anything without five part Roman-numbered novel length blog posts. I think this article kind of misses a crucial point. They weren't always AI doomers, that's a thing they picked up along the way. Their core beliefs are 1. That they are the smartest, and 2. That this makes them morally superior because consequentialism (This sort of follows. If you believe in consequentialism, leaving all your decisions to the superior consequence predictor is surely the moral thing to do) Maybe one day they will stop believing in AI doom, but they will never, ever stop believing they belong to the intellectually and thus morally elect. The day any of them do that they have either broken with the cult or died. | | |
| ▲ | bombcar 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > They seem incapable of saying anything without five part Roman-numbered novel length blog posts. Maybe that’s why they’re so pissed, ChatGPT’s useless verbosity is threatening to put them out of a job. | | |
| ▲ | vintermann 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I'm tempted to say "You're absolutely right" :) yeah, it's no coincidence that AIs sound a bit like them -- a lot of the people doing the instruction tuning are affiliated with these people. And it's also a profound self-identity threat to them if that kind of intelligence is nothing special. |
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| ▲ | robocat 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The sankey chart refers to her birthday: https://aella.substack.com/p/my-birthday-gangbang With my approval, organizers rejected anyone associated with e/acc, because we don’t need to give nice things to people hastening our doom
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| ▲ | ekr 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Well, I used to think like that too. Then I became slightly more spiritual, and the very idea of this sort of behavior is bothering, upsetting, irritating. But it mostly evokes pity. Like becoming aware of someone hurting him/herself in some way. The way I see it, sex is a sort of portal to another world. This sounds a bit weird, but it really does and should have a great deal of meaning behind it, as it is/was central to our species. If it becomes mundane for someone, this really does ruin a lot of that person's life. Even if you completely remove the judgment element. If sex doesn't occur in the context of a love relationship, it's just uncanny territory. It comes with some emptiness. There's a proper and healthy way to live. This is from my life experience. Stray too much off-course and you will experience consequences. It's just the way things are. | | |
| ▲ | tuesdaynight 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Amazing how people come with all these rationalizations instead of just accepting that they are not the kind of people who like casual sex. There's nothing wrong or unhealthy about casual sex, it's just not for you. You can have your loving sex all your life, nobody will force you to have casual sex. About orgies, it bothers me how much people who never frequented these circles have so many opinions about how bad or unhealthy they are. I know religious people who have the "healthy sex life" and are completely deranged. I could say that they are that way because of their sex life, but I would be as wrong as you are. | | |
| ▲ | akomtu a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Nothing unhealthy in promiscuity and orgies? The people's moral standards have indeed fallen low. This sort of behavior spreads diseases like a wildfire. As for why people seek this, it's because it's easy to project your demonic fantasies onto a person you don't know. Once you get to know your partner well, his or her personality dispells your imagination and you have to behave in a more upright manner. It's probably why it's common to wear masks on such events. | |
| ▲ | suburban_strike a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | Some of us have spent countless nights with other kids locked in the basement during parents' swinger parties and/or been there and done it ourselves as adults and found it to be as much an empty experience as the parent poster suggests. Molestation victims also frequently report the same sentiment. Removing love from the equation turns the act of sex into mechanical fluid exchange, and the participants into human livestock. Promiscuous people are as annoying as those who refuse to eat at the same restaurant twice. You have an insatiable appetite for novelty that you need to see normalized in others-- to defer ever having to face the very emptiness we're describing. If you actually found it fulfilling, you wouldn't need to sell others on something that sells itself. | | |
| ▲ | JimmyBuckets a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Thank you for sharing your personal experience. Not only is what you said compelling, but it again highlights the importance of experience as a path to knowledge. Rationality is brittle and cannot access much of the vastness of human experience. | |
| ▲ | tuesdaynight a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | You had a shitty childhood, I'm sorry. About the rest, I guarantee you that it's just not for you. No problem in that, but don't be mad that other people like the lifestyle. There's nothing unhealthy in that. You can be as puritan as you want, nothing unhealthy as well! |
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| ▲ | thevinter 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This sounds incredibly judgemental and imposing of your own world view and moral compass | | |
| ▲ | bandie91 2 days ago | parent [-] | | what is so "incredibly" and "imposing" in the parent comment, that saying «my experience is…», «i feel more in it than many imagine/expect», «factually ruins many lifes», and «it just seem working this way», even «remove the judgment element» ?? it is as gently and friendly of a warning as it could be. i would say rather less nicely: people! don't be degenerate! it does not worth it. it causes harm to you, to neighbours, to bystanders too, even if you dont intend. | | |
| ▲ | freehorse 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Well OP claiming they get "bothered, upset and irritated" by people having "rape kinks" and "pitying them" sounds kind of judgemental to me. Same goes with "don't be degenerate" for sexual behaviours you do not approve that, somehow, also harm one's neighbours for some reason. | | |
| ▲ | pigpop 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Something being judgemental is not a reason to dismiss it. | | |
| ▲ | freehorse 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Imo judgemental as in starting from "my life experience" and getting to that's "how to live" is a reason to dismiss it as an argument, as others may have different life experiences and yours is not universal. | |
| ▲ | preg_match a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | It is when there’s no concrete reasoning behind it. The reasoning provided here is “well I don’t like it, therefore it must be bad!” That kind of thinking would be acceptable if we were like… 8 years old. But as an adult, having that reasoning process is embarrassing. |
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| ▲ | tuesdaynight 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | How having lot of sex would cause harm to my neighbours? | | |
| ▲ | krageon a day ago | parent | next [-] | | They might get sad because they feel like they're missing out | |
| ▲ | stickfigure a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be having a good time. | |
| ▲ | MC995 a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm sure OP would argue that the breakdown of the family structure and social cohesion has a deleterious effect on society as a whole, which includes your neighbors. | | |
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| ▲ | deinonychus a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | >There's a proper and healthy way to live. dude straight up said other people are Doing Life Wrong |
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| ▲ | pigpop 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yes and indulging this appetite is much like any other, a good comparison being the other fundamental one: hunger. I think that also frames it in a way that makes it more concrete as to what the negative aspects are as well as showing that total abstinence is not necessarily an unalloyed virtue. If you don't eat at all you will starve but you can easily eat too much or eat the wrong things and it becomes gluttony at the extremes. Coming up with systems that allow you to cheat the negative aspects also turns pathological in the long run. Deadly sins exist even without the religious framing but the spiritual, social and psychological aspects are very real regardless of what anyone professes to believe. | | |
| ▲ | krageon a day ago | parent [-] | | You've made a hypothesis, provided no basis for it, blew past that and built some more conclusions on top of it. Along the way you introduced a few more unsubstantiated thoughts. The post in it's entirety reads as a religious rant, but it might have had something to offer to the reader if you had bothered to provide some sort of philosophical foundation for why you feel that the middle way is the superior way. And that all excess is inherently not only nearly identical in terms of effect, but by definition harmful. |
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| ▲ | maeglin 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > as a gay furry > fennec butt he was hiding in plain sight all along | |
| ▲ | peri-cl 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'm relieved to hear a voice of simple decency! Really, the most questionable thing here is that someone wrote a 2,000+ word essay about someone else's sex life. | | |
| ▲ | mjburgess 2 days ago | parent [-] | | It's not about their sex life. It's about how sex connects a community of barely legible AI doomerism. If you don't understand human social interactions very well, or otherwise assume you live in a "world of ideas", then this may not seem salient. However, it is. Because what we have to explain is why there's a community of people in northern california who deliver unargued prophecies about the end of human civilisation as-if their prophetic ability is a given. The answer, unsuprisingly, is sex. This is not an unusual answer in the world of "prophetic communication". What, in the end, is prophecy as a social practice? It is some ideological Leader with followers who impart to that leader a 'charismatic power' of foreknowledge based on their attachement to that leader. What is the mechanism of this attachemnt? In otherwords: how is this style of prophecy spreading around the AI doomer community, if not by plain argument and evidence? Sex. | | |
| ▲ | stickfigure a day ago | parent [-] | | There are many other... let's call them "orgy circles"... in the Bay Area attended by people who have no idea who Eliezer Yudkowsky is. The majority of AI doomers do not attend orgies. You're reading too much into a single correlation. |
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| ▲ | rcxdude 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Indeed. This feels like it's just slut shaming. | |
| ▲ | alphawhisky a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I feel like people's problem is less "adults having consensual relations ew" and more "our incentive system is so fucked up that these people are now the intellectual leaders of the AI movement. Not by merit, but by developing a weird erotic exclusionary synchronicity that the rich folks like." Same thing is happening in government too. | |
| ▲ | cyanydeez 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > It's surprisingly common in women This would be a _Fascinating_ citation. | | |
| ▲ | amanaplanacanal 2 days ago | parent [-] | | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19085605/ First hit in a Kagi search. | | |
| ▲ | cyanydeez 2 days ago | parent [-] | | yeah, if you ignore what the op said, it sounds similar. | | |
| ▲ | tsimionescu 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I have no idea how trustworthy this study is - but it claims that 62% of women had such a fantasy at least once. How is that not in line with what the OP said about it being "surprisingly common"? | | |
| ▲ | Yossarrian22 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Many rock climbers have felt the "call of the void" when climbing, I've felt it myself on a multi-pitch once, I'd hardly claim they are suicidal or have suicidal ideations and would not identify myself as either. I think there needs to be a certain level of intention to make the fantasy reality for it to be a kink. | | |
| ▲ | tsimionescu a day ago | parent | next [-] | | I suspect the misunderstanding might be around the precise meaning of the word "kink" then. I think in one common understanding of the word, that I assume the OP was using, having a taboo fantasy that you merely roleplay with a partner you are deeply intimate with, in full consent from both, can very well be classified as "a kink", even if what you're experiencing is the not really SA. Based on your response, I'm assuming that in your understanding, it would only be "a kink" if it was a desire to actually experience a real sexual assault, which of course no one, or perhaps only an extreme extreme minority, actually wishes for. I don't believe OP meant to imply that this is at all common. | | |
| ▲ | Yossarrian22 a day ago | parent [-] | | More like if it’s a desire to have a consensual non-consensual encounter, a sort of kayfabe at the least |
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| ▲ | Dweller1622 a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | > I think there needs to be a certain level of intention to make the fantasy reality for it to be a kink. Hopefully this isn't to imply that people with fantasies actually want to have non-consensual sex in some capacity. If so then this completely misunderstands sexual fantasy! |
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| ▲ | MelonArmiger 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [flagged] | |
| ▲ | automatic6131 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I don't want to hear about it: yours, hers (Aella) and I'm certainly not going to tell you what my deal is, either. Problem is, Aella has made it her business to speak about it publicly, and the parent commenter(and I)'d be happier if we didn't read about it. It's fine to say that. I'm not hung up about anything others are doing: but I genuinely, passionately, don't want to be informed about it. | | |
| ▲ | perlgeek 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > Problem is, Aella has made it her business to speak about it publicly Why is that a problem? Just don't read her stuff if you're not interested. There are lots of people talking all the time about stuff I'm not interested in. | | |
| ▲ | automatic6131 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | That's the solution the parent commenter had! And the gay furry (self identified) complained about! If you have a problem with his announcing the solution (to stop reading) then maybe you should just not read his comment, or my comment, or... | | |
| ▲ | freehorse 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I guess what OP wanted to bring up (as I understood) is that if somebody says "I am straight" it does not usually induce people turning the internet off. But in any case they are free to choose that and that does not really matter in anything (a person not wanting to read sth). I still think it is worth bringing it up as OP did. |
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| ▲ | lelanthran 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Why is that a problem? Just don't read her stuff if you're not interested. I agree, but... If you work hard to become a public figure, you must have known in advance that there'd be public opinions of you, right? I find it distasteful that people want to be some sort of public figure while expecting that other people's opinions should be private. | | | |
| ▲ | popularonion a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Just don't read her stuff if you're not interested. This retort is disingenuous when almost everyone is on algorithmic social media and trying to chase clout and drive revenue with engagement bait. I would never read Aella's Substack in my free time, but I have a good idea who she is and what she posts just by virtue of having a feed that mostly gives me tech and politics stuff. |
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| ▲ | ambicapter a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | I know who Aella is from being on the internet and I have never heard of these habits of hers until this post. |
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