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| ▲ | Escapado an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I am not OP and obviously "winning" reduces too many dimensions into one. But I will say that from my recent two visits to the country that I was pretty astonished by the speed at which they are building things. Cars, Buildings, Tech Hubs, Factories. You blink twice and a new tech company plops up somewhere making high end drones or humanoid robots or CNC machines or innovative 3d printers. It feels like there is an absolute abundance of electrical and mechanical engineers in that country and funding to match.
I am not making any comments on the politics of it all, but I have not seen this anywhere else in the world - perhaps it exists but I am not aware of it. | | |
| ▲ | vehemenz 5 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Agreed, but on other dimensions China is still 150 years behind the West. It’s important to keep this progress in perspective. | |
| ▲ | Arkhaine_kupo 27 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | For some of us, it mimics late 19th century europe where the rate of innovation perhaps was only matched by the lack of regard for cost, safety or need. I think we are closer to seeing the Chinese Hindenburg than Arpanet or Moon voyage or some other bewildering humanity joining initiative. Its inarguable that the industrial revolution brought tons of wealth quickly to the UK. But one, having past it all, has to wonder if the child work force, insanely cramped victorian houses, constant deaths due to smog, polluted water etc could not have been entirely avoided by reducing "innovation" speed. Is the existing suffering of the Chinese system worth the economic growth? For its own middle class, the answer is probably yes. But systemic conditions like limiting the universities places to top 30% students, means you have a permanent underclass that cannot join the white collar jobs. Is that required to have a cheap, hardworking manufacturing and construction industries? Maybe. But reinventing a class system that has a few steps removed from slavery as an "economic miracle" and "neck breaking speed innovation" feels a bit icky when they could take 5 years longer and treat people better. We are arguably close to post scarcity, and instead of building post-capitalism instruments (like libraries could be imagined as), we are just perfecting the economic conditions of capitalism which require an inordinate amount of cheap labour and state violence. Billionaires are building bunkers instead of museums, they can see the end game of this system they benefit from and its not a good one. Like I can't understand whats the point of winning "the economy" if we end up in a post nuclear hellscape of ecological collapse, but number must go up I have been told. | | |
| ▲ | graemep 17 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I do not think it was necessary for it to be that bad for the industrial revolution to happen. Possibly displacing agricultural workers through the agricultural revolution and enclosures accelerated it? It is certainly not necessary for economic development now. You probably cannot give people in less developed economies the same pay and working conditions, but you can provide the basics and relatively decent treatment. |
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| ▲ | weatherlite 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | China has the largest combined collective penis size. Around 500 million men (I'm discounting young kids and the elderly) times 4.5 inches (according to statistics).
No other power on earth has that penis size. | |
| ▲ | dosisking an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > In what way has "China already won"? The US has depleted their missile stockpile and can no longer defend anybody. Countries in the Middle East are moving away from the US and forming their own alliances. Taiwan knows that the US cannot do anything to help them. South Korea also knows. The US has weaponized the US Dollar, forcing countries out of the SWIFT system if they don't do what they are told. As a result, the CHIPS system has become the alternative. China understands better how the economy works, with the Belt and Road Initiative. The US government doesn't understand how the economy works, and is run by a bunch of complete m orons. | | |
| ▲ | cbg0 44 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | You've said a bunch of things that don't really equate to "China already won". | | |
| ▲ | dosisking 31 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > You've said a bunch of things that don't really equate to "China already won". There is no path for victory for the US, where it remains the world's reserve currency. China will become the world's reserve currency by 2032. You are simply in denial. Everything that I wrote points to China winning. | | |
| ▲ | roncesvalles 11 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Reserve currency status entirely depends on whether the issuing authority has the ability to drop a munition (literally or figuratively) on the head of anyone who dares to counterfeit the currency. China's military and soft influence are improving but until they get that good, USD will remain the reserve. Because, imagine the scenario where the US simply counterfeits the renminbi. What is China's recourse? Spicy statements by Wang Yi in toothless international forums? | |
| ▲ | haldujai 24 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > China will become the world's reserve currency by 2032. China doesn’t want this for the same reason that some Americans currently in power don’t want the USD to be the world’s reserve currency - it comes with an export and trade cost. There are also many structural and political reasons why the Yuan can’t play this role not least of which are transparency, the peg and monetary supply independence. | |
| ▲ | charlieyu1 13 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This has to be the funniest thing I’ve read for a while. China still has two exchange rates. | |
| ▲ | kakacik 10 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Folks can keep their heads in the sand for pretty long, as long as they look just at progressively smaller circle around them and ignore rest of reality. The momentum China already gained, and gaining more every day is well beyond anything in the west. Plus if you consider the position they are rising from, its properly meteoric. Nobody knows future, but its rather easy to continue projection with current, or even a bit slower pace and within 1 or 2 decades, situation will be pretty clear from any objective perspective. Above is purely technological/process progress. Add US making enemy of whole world in one brilliant move, something that is practically irreversible in upcoming decades, and situation is clear. Military (without ammo) alone won't give you much negotiating power. LLMs can be replicated elsewhere with rather little cost, and soon some small bleeding edge advantage will be largely meaningless for most practical tasks. It doesn't even matter what near future brings, this is settled and no amount of denial from US or self-patting is changing that. |
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| ▲ | layer8 23 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It’s meant in the sense similar to “omae wa mou shindeiru” (“you’re already dead”), i.e. that defeat has already become unavoidable. | |
| ▲ | spacedcowboy 33 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | I’m not sure I agree with “already won”, that’s an extreme position, but there are consequences to all the things s/he says. It may be a death of 1000 cuts, or it may hit a tipping point, but the us is certainly walking blindly down the “let China win” road. As a joint us/uk citizen, even I would prefer to deal with China than the USA these days. Predictability is really useful in business, and narcissistic man child presidents aren’t predictable. |
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| ▲ | weatherlite 7 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > China understands better how the economy works, Many people avoid Chinese stocks like the plague because the system is still half communist and as a foreign investor you get some paper in a company on Cayman Island instead of real direct ownership. That keeps me from buying their stocks and I'm not the only one. | |
| ▲ | roncesvalles 15 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Every single point you've made is either straight up untrue or comes with caveats. I hate to quote Trump but, in light of Brandolini's law: "Wrong." |
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| ▲ | prmoustache an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Look around and visit any country, you'll see chinese made and sold goods inundating everymarket, build infrastructures. It used to be chinese made goods sold by local or western companies. Nowadays bar a few exceptions these are chinese goods sold directly by chinese brands/companies. | | |
| ▲ | fidotron 26 minutes ago | parent [-] | | And many of those products are not only good they're becoming good in ways nowhere else can do. |
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| ▲ | arethuza an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Because, unlike the other superpower, they don't seem to be losing? | | |
| ▲ | 9dev an hour ago | parent [-] | | The USA is repeatedly punching itself in the face over and over though, so it's not a fair fight. |
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| ▲ | philipallstar an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Their culture prioritises economic outputs not entitlements. |
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