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20k 4 hours ago

Because the core of the issue is that it may well not have solved it, but instead plagiarised the significant step of the result from other researchers

That's why nobody's talking about how impressive this is, because its not nearly as impressive of a piece of work to simply cobble together other peoples' work that didn't know you were doing it. I could have republished relativity from einstein's notes, but people would correctly not be impressed with my ability

Until the plagiarism scandal is sorted out, its not a meaningful result at all, because nobody knows how much genuine innovation these models are displaying

atleastoptimal 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Turning a bunch of vague research directions and exploratory prompts into a formalized proof is quite impressive on its own. OpenAI would have no incentive to taint its first math announcement of this magnitude if it knew it were "plagiarizing" another person's work.

People are grasping at straws it seems to dismiss the power of this new model they may have. Hate OpenAI for any reason you want, but denying the capabilities of models has been a losing game for the past 5 years.

manofmanysmiles 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> OpenAI would have no incentive to taint its first math announcement of this magnitude if it knew it were "plagiarizing" another person's work.

I'm not sure I follow, considering the waterfall of evidence of unethical behavior flowing from OpenAI.

A few major ones:

- Safety team departures and dissolution in 2023 and 2024

- Mass copyright infrigement lawsuits

- Scarlett Johansson Voice Controversy

- For-Profit Conversion and Broken Promises

- AI Agents Acting Autonomously

- Potential Theft of User Work (this current controversy)

- Military contracts

These are not evidence of incentives, but rather evidence that ethetics seem to be of little concern to the company as a whole.

Incentive wise, I would look at the perceive existential position due to competitors, capex, IPO pressure etc.

20k an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Especially after they committed textbook misconduct by trying to purge one of the paper authors because he worked for a competitor

symfoniq an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Ye shall know them by their fruits.

samastur 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why do you assume they were vague? Do you imagine mathematicians work by stumbling around searching for accidental clues?

caconym_ 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I really truly honestly am not sure what to make of this result from $20M in compute, 10K+ parallel agents (smells like brute force), and a pre-existing approach that was already bearing fruit. I know the models are good---I use them every day and continue to be impressed---but how much better than the benchmark of the best publicly available models is this supposed to be? It seems impossible to say.

surgical_fire 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> OpenAI would have no incentive to taint its first math announcement of this magnitude if it knew it were "plagiarizing" another person's work.

That people still think OpenAI has, in the Year of Our Lord 2026, any integrity left is baffling.

TZubiri 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> if it knew it were "plagiarizing"

But if it happened, they didn't know. Also OAI has demonstrated that they aren't big on understanding what they create, that their AI can get out of their control.

It's very simple really user data can be used to train future models, so maybe or definitely some users helped in solving the problem, there's no scenario were it is impossible this happened, as it would have been in a haskell or virtualized type of system where the model has absolutely no knowledge of the user data dataset in question (and even if virtualized the models can break virtualization anyways)

transdev12 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

sho_hn 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Because the core of the issue is that it may well not have solved it, but instead plagiarised the significant step of the result from other researchers

It's also true however that I haven't seen a single write up trying to discern what did more of the work in those AI chats - the prompts or the responses - bubble to the surface, also since we don't have access to them.

For example, if I prompt Codex with "Make me a website about strawberry cake" and nothing else, and OpenAI announces they have the best strawberry cake minutes before I launch, I'm not sure they plagiarized anything.

We just don't know if this is quibbling over "who prompted first" or if the researchers came up with anything strikingly original by themselves.

20k 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The researchers apparently spend a year or so working on this, and it builds off significant previous work, so it seems like it was a pretty significant amount of work that OpenAI may have trained on

I'd love to see an in depth analysis of how much OpenAI actually did, but I suspect we'll never see that because it would indicate at least some plagiarism which undermines a lot of what OpenAI is putting out in public

Hardwired8976 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The conversation was about using the chat to check the draft, the novel ideas came from the researcher.

ImPostingOnHN 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The truth is likely that without the tool or the humans using it, the process would have taken longer

airstrike 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Without the humans, no tool would ever have done it.

Without the tool, humans would have done it.

TZubiri 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's worth noting that the case is that your input is being used to train their AI, and that's more important than whether it materially contributed, it cannot be denied or attributed accurately, it cannot be said with certainty which way it happened, and that's what's important.

tristanj 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It is very unlikely to be plagiarized, and claims of plagiarism are largely unfounded and show a lack of understanding of the situation. They fall apart when reviewing the timeline, and what was actually solved.

This is the timeline:

On June 29, Buckmaster opted out of model training, and stopped allowing his chats to be used as training data with OpenAI https://mastodon.social/@tristanbuckmaster/11723341370570119...

On August 15, Buckmaster and Alpöge found their blow-up for 3D incompressible Euler with forcing https://cims.nyu.edu/~tristanb/statement.pdf

In late August, OpenAI completed a pretrain of its latest internal model. A model derived from this pretrain, built after August 28, found a solution to 3D incompressible Euler without forcing and Navier-Stokes with forcing. https://openai.com/index/navier-stokes-solution/

To explain who solved what (I copied from here: https://x.com/IlinVasily29521/status/2097554700321329393 )

  Tristan + Levent: 3D incompressible Euler with forcing
  OpenAI: 3D incompressible Euler without forcing
  OpenAI: Navier-Stokes with forcing
  No one: Navier-Stokes without forcing
Euler equations = Navier-Stokes without viscosity. Forcing means external force. Absence of viscosity and presence of external force make blowup easier to construct.

Tristan+Levent ticked the weakest case, OpenAI ticked the two next weakest, then the final case is unsolved. Only the last two are eligible for the Millennium Prize. The Navier-Stokes general case remains unsolved.

Buckmaster disabled model training long before the August 15 breakthrough results, so these chats were not used as training data for OpenAI's model which solved Navier-Stokes.

Additionally, Tristan and Levent only solved the easiest version of the problem and did not have the key insights to solve the harder versions of the problem required for the Millennium Prize.

And OpenAI directly addressed these plagiarism claims, and called them impossible: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/10/science/tristan-buckmaste...

"We can say categorically that it is impossible for Dr. Buckmaster’s Codex prompts over the last two months to have influenced the system in any way, including training."

ggoo 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I’m unsure or not if this is true but I did see some people saying that that checkbox when off only anonymizes your data, but it still may be trained on. Someone correct me if I am wrong