They say these features are opt-in and they reject dark patterns, but in my experience setting up LG TVs, everything was opt-in and I had to manually hunt through all the menus to turn this stuff off.

Their statements don’t align with the reality I’ve experienced as a customer. My TV is not connected to the network, because the setup process left me with 0 trust that LG wouldn’t be collecting information regardless of my settings, or that I didn’t miss something. There was also the risk that they’d add a new “feature” with an update which would I’d be automatically opted in to.

Until they start selling truly dumb TVs, I’m not going to trust anything and their statements fall flat.

▲ gus_massa a day ago | parent | next [-]

> everything was opt-in

Opt-in used to mean that it was disabled until you explicitly click somewhere to enable it.

▲ al_borland a day ago | parent | next [-]

I probably should have said "everything was already enabled"... Opt-in/out was on the mind, and neither seemed like the right wording to convey that the choice was already made for me in the wrong direction.... I was opted in automatically.

▲ OroPla 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

If the checkbox is already ticked it is called opt-out. You have to toggle the checkbox to not be activated. The other way around is opt-in. The checkbox is empty and if you want to enable it you have to take action.

Opt-in: take action to have the feature.

Opt-out: take action to not have the feature.

▲ vikramkr 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I would argue there is a very clear unambiguously correct choice of wording for that case. The setting was opt out. It's a binary concept and which case it's in is determined by the default given no user action. If it is opt in, then it is off by default and you have to make the choice to turn it on. If it is opt out, it is on by default and you have to make the choice to turn it off. If it was enabled automatically it is opt out. There's no need to complicate the meaning of terminology with a straightforward definition. Given you don't take active action, that you accept all defaults and take the path of least resistance, is it enabled or disabled by default? That's all that matters.

▲ alt227 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It was enabled when you accepted the terms and conditions when you first turned it on, or did a firmware update. LGs statment says this:

> ACR is an optional feature that is turned off by default. To enable ACR, a user must accept LG’s Viewing Information Agreement, which describes how ACR works.

Which I take to mean that when you agree to the terms, it enables the feature.

▲ phil21 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

It also gates some "features" like the "AI" auto-detection of media type to automatically switch the TV between sports, movie, gaming, etc. modes as well. At least from my memory of a recent LG OLED setup.

▲ canucker2016 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

At 5:58 of the Gamers Nexus (GN) video about LG TV's spying, GN make a statement:

  Now, our lawyers have made the totally unrelated point uh that we cannot legally agree to contracts such as terms of service or conditions while incredibly innebriated.

So they drank a lot of margaritas while video-recording the section concerning reading and accepting the Terms of Service for the TV.

Take that LG legal dept.

see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IFVTcM28KA&t=358s

	▲	delecti 2 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		I don't think that would hold up in any court in the world. While sober, and in coordination with legal counsel, they made a plan to accept the terms and conditions. That's like a kid swinging their arms around on a playground while saying "I'm not touching you" levels.
	▲	qlte an hour ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		I personally would not trust legal advice from YouTubers who make money from whatever "content" generates the most views. The more outrageous and controversial the better, making sense or being true a distant secondary priority. Even those who make a name for themselves as trustworthy tend to eventually succomb to the incentives of the algorithm if it's their day job.

▲ al_borland 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If the user needs to accept the viewing agreement to get through the initial setup, and agreement enables those features, then it's an opt-out feature, not an opt-in feature.

The only alternative would be to not accept the agreement and return the TV to the store, because there would be no way to go through the setup and actually use the TV.

I can't remember if this agreement was forced during the last setup I did, but most of these agreements are forced. There is no way to not check a box and still use the device with the desired featured turned off out of the gate.

Maybe they technically have it opt-out, but from a user perspective, that's not the experience. This is a dark pattern and their framing around this solidifies that I will never buy another LG product.

▲ josephg 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Based on the section on gamersnexus, they use dark patterns to get you to agree. They show a bunch of user agreements to you all at once and auto select the “accept all” button to get your tv working. They hide the optional agreements for spying amongst all the other ones you need to agree to to make the tv work. Most people probably don’t realise you can turn off the checkbox which gives permission to have your tv spy on you.

▲ gus_massa a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Yesterday I saw a comment that say that some info collecting was "opt-in by default" and I imagined it was an evil conspiracy f corporations to dilute the name. I just looked for the comment, but it was just another case of error while writing the comment.

Anyway, last year my phone died and I bought a new one made by Samsung. I had to opt out of collection like 4 or 5 times with confusing buttons, and there is a lot of crapware installed by default, and then the phone offered to install two additional apps. I almost sure I said no, but one of them got installed anyway.

▲ thfuran 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It still does.

▲ intothemild 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Opt-in as in don't connect smart TVs to the internet.

▲ brigade 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

For like a decade, the "opt-in" to ACR was included in the ToS agreement needed to use any smart features. Then at least some brands made the opt-in separate, but made it look like a recommendation engine or "help us improve your experience" agreement.

LG adopted the "Maybe Later" dark pattern for opt-in to ACR, at least in some markets. Though I guess you never know for sure with A/B testing.