| ▲ | 1970-01-01 5 hours ago |
| Google has forgotten the plot. A quick tangent story follows: I attempted to add a Tesla Supercharger as it went live to Google Maps. I was the very first to pay to recharge at the new location. The process went something like this: 1st time: Uploaded 4 photos, local business info, current charger prices, and GPS coordinates. Google replied this would be sent to human review. It was rejected within 6 minutes. 2nd attempt: Uploaded 6 more photos, including shots of local business hours and info, and current prices. Rejected in 6 minutes. 3rd time: One photo of a new charger, no description. Rejected in 6 minutes. 4th time: Appended all above details to local business info. It went live within a minute. 5 days later: Supercharger location was added by ??? and included no info at all and the pinpoint was off by 100m. |
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| ▲ | SteveGerencser 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-] |
| And it's still 100x easier than trying to add your own business or set up a Google Business Profile. Shoot a video from outside showing the buildings around you, show the address and permanent signage on the building (they don't always accept door signs), unlock the door to show that you own the space, then show the interior of the space with things like signage, letterhead, business cards, etc. Then hope that the video was 'good enough' to get a listing. And heaven help you if you choose to get an office on an upper floor where an elevator ride is required, or you get a space in a building that also has/had a co-working space in it. |
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| ▲ | Vinnl 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| FWIW, editing OpenStreetMap is very straightforward*, and with that, you're actually contributing to an open data set that everyone is allowed to use, rather than just propping up Google. (To be fair, on a laptop - I'm sure Google Maps is more straightforward on a phone. But for someone already prepared to invest this much effort, editing OSM should be well within range. And if you just enjoy contributing to maps, for a phone I can highly recommend https://streetcomplete.app.) |
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| ▲ | cube00 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This is what I do now, got jack of Google throwing my contributions back in my face. They also only email if your contribution is successful. If it's declined you'll only know by looking inside Google Maps. Contributing to an open dataset also feels really good. | |
| ▲ | nhecker 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Between the streetcomplete and everydoor apps, it is very very easy to do almost any OSM map editing on a mobile. Osmand (the offline map & nav app) is also useful for some edits when I don't want to leave that app. Oh, for the simpler days when not everything required an app. | |
| ▲ | spwa4 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Wasn't making street plans from satellite pictures ruled transformative? So if you get an AI to make street plans from Google maps, satellite layer, you're not violating copyright are you? | | |
| ▲ | mtmail 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Bing Maps allows the OpenStreetMap community to trace from aerial_imagery
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bing_Maps#Aerial_imagery Google doesn't. How much a tool helps somebody to draw the actual roads varies by editor software used, some have plugins. Using AI in bulk isn't allowed afaik. | |
| ▲ | 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | LoganDark 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | If you obtain the satellite images directly from Google Maps, you can still have problems because you might not have permission to use the data. That's not copyright though. | | |
| ▲ | Chris2048 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > you might not have permission to use the data Isn't it fair use, like training data? | | |
| ▲ | nostrademons an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I think the issue is the ToU violation, not copyright. | | |
| ▲ | spwa4 39 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Don't terms of use depend entirely on copyright to work? Without copyright ... why would you need to agree to terms of use to use the software/site/data? And doesn't that mean that terms of use can never impose restrictions stricter than copyright? |
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| ▲ | LoganDark an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Google Maps has commercial licenses to some of their data. Reusing that data without your own license can cause problems you might not like. This mostly applies in cases where it's provable that the data you used would've required a license that you do not have. | |
| ▲ | matkoniecz an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | OpenStreetMap commmunity, for variety of reasons, avoids questionable or very novel approaches to intellectual property. I guess that some may be calling it overdoing in direction opposite than Internet Archive did. It is at least partially caused by fact that OpenStreetMap Foundation budget is laughably small. |
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| ▲ | mavamaarten 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Another thing they apparently do is let business owners (e.g. hotels) remove negative reviews because they're "defamatory". I had a very factual 3-star review on a hotel that was supposedly very quiet, but was super noisy and the AC was not working. And there was literally nobody at the reception at the time of check-out and nobody picked up the phone either. All in all, nothing serious, but worth a review. Purely factual stuff, nothing bad-mouthed, just my experience and three stars. A few months later the review was removed because it was "defamatory". I was able to get it reinstated by sending them proof of payment to the hotel and proof that I was there. A few months later, it was removed again! That same dance was repeated six times..... What a weird system. |
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| ▲ | cube00 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm surprised you knew it was removed. All my negative reviews appear visible to me when logged in and disappear when logged out. Only sure fire way I've found is to leave a two star review with no body. One star without a body is also shadowbanned for me. | |
| ▲ | SoftTalker 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yet another example of how the incentives work when the platform makes its money with ad revenue. The hotel pays Google for ads and gets favorable search results. If Google then hosts a negative review, the hotel might be less inclined to advertise there. So, only positive reviews get published. The reviewer isn't contributing to Google's revenue at all, so his honest review is only worth something if it makes the advertisers happy. |
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| ▲ | Someone1234 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I've found that if you attach any pictures at all: rejected. So what I've taken to doing is adding the business without photos (almost always accepted), and then trying to attach the photos later after that goes live (mostly works). But I agree, their process is completely broken, and I doubt they have any incentive to fix it. |
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| ▲ | trainingonme 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Question here then, is when will we see a competitor enter the market who both cares about getting it right and is actually able to compete with google maps | | |
| ▲ | kevindamm 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Having seen the abuse vectors that get thrown at this and similar products, I suspect it is less about whether they care and more about finding a suitable threshold for some arbitrary features, or moments of demand exceeding the available moderators. The repetitive 6 minutes make me suspect there are reports timing out in the moderator queue and the automod doesn't like images or something. Or, perhaps a part of the process that is two or three teams away, like photo attachments being deemed too large (getting passed from Maps UI through internal task queues to some abuse analysis, or even as early as the frontends that take the request). Plausible, especially as phone photos have steadily increased in size while some thresholds remain ossified. I'm outside that world now so I can't investigate or effect change.. there used to be people there who care about these things. I suspect there still are. Even more likely is that other priorities exceed the capacity of the headcount on the relevant teams. I don't know if that counts as the company not caring. It's hard to attribute intent on corporate-scale embodiments. Perhaps that's the root of the problem, I wonder if any collective that reaches hundreds of thousands of members can ever exhibit that. Maps is a huge product that a small competitor could hardly compete with but I'd love to be proved wrong (either on the smallness or considerateness aspects). | | |
| ▲ | jerf 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | This is the key to the problem that I think people are missing, possibly because they kind of want to miss it. Google and the other companies hiding behind LLMs and primarily doing it because they can't operate at the scale they do, with the dedicated ecosystems to gaming them that they develop, without this hiding. They can't afford humans to review in a minute or two what scammers can generate in fractions of a second, not even at their scale. Now, I'm enough of a fan of decentralization and the destruction of these massive sites with way too much control to say that I'm perfectly comfortable saying that they should be mandated to handle these things more sensibly and with more humans. That such a plan would have the side effect of breaking them up into vastly, vastly smaller pieces, causing an technological Cambrian explosion of various sites and diversity resulting in the parasites no longer being able to focus all their firepower on a very small set of targets, is for me a bonus, if not the main goal. However, I, and anyone who agrees with me on this, is rather clearly in the minority. In the meantime, if we're going to have things the size of Google or Facebook, there simply is no solution where we all get human review whenever we ask for it, because instantly every spammer and abuser will ask for the human review. There just isn't a solution. It looks like there is an obvious solution when you consider "how will Google review this one application" but that's not the landscape Google faces. They have to solve the problem of how to deal with the entire landscape of requests they face at once. | | |
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| ▲ | pessimizer 11 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | A competitor would be sabotaged by both Apple and Google, the masters of the only two mobile platforms we are allowed, and who collude. | |
| ▲ | 0xbrayo 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Apple Maps maybe? | | |
| ▲ | mfro 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Apple Maps is much better in my experience. I've never had an update rejected. | | |
| ▲ | mig39 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I've sent in corrections to Apple Maps in Portugal (shopping mall is 1km away from the location on Apple Maps) and Canada (speed camera does not exist). Both were taken care of within a couple of days. | |
| ▲ | tonyedgecombe an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | It took them two years to update my address. |
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| ▲ | wlesieutre 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | At least in my personal experience, Apple Maps is much worse at up to date business information than Google is But when I've submitted updates to road changes a couple of times, they did go through | |
| ▲ | carlosjobim an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | They are absolutely awful and won't accept even a correction of opening hours - when you are the owner of the business and registered as such with Apple. | |
| ▲ | AlexandrB 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Apple Maps has Apple Ads and Apple Ads are awful. |
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| ▲ | sfn42 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Why would they fix it when you guys find workarounds to get it done anyway? I bet they'd care if their data started going stale because nobody bothered to update it. | | |
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| ▲ | embedding-shape 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Had similar experience trying to add a restaurant to Google Maps, our own even. First time, rejected because didn't exist, it did. Second time, they say they sent a letter, and they see that someone received it, no one did. We wait a month, they say they sent another letter, we wait another month. Nothing, and now they stopped replying too. Wait another month, suddenly the restauarant magically exists on Google Maps, with the wrong images, wrong address, wrong open times, but the pin is the right place at least, so I guess that's cool. Took another month or two to force through all the corrections too. This was made 2-3 years ago, probably worse today. Absolutely horrific experience, and they have zero motivation to fix it, because people like us still want to be on Google Maps, especially if you're not in a super good location, so people can actually find you. |
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| ▲ | nhecker 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Another path may be to add the business to OpenStreetMap first; I get the impression that Google will scrape changes to OSM and add them to it's dataset. (I've seen several small changes I've made only to OSM get propagated to GMaps a few weeks later. Possibly it's a coincidence, but when the features are exactly the same shape as the ones I drew in OSM, I get suspicious.) |
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| ▲ | saghm 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I've stopped believing in the accuracy of Google maps after my experience at my last apartment. The ground floor of my building was a deli with an address like 123 4th Ave, and the entrance to the deli was basically facing the corner itself rather than either side of the cross street, and my apartment's address (using the placeholder above as a reference) was 123 4th Ave Apt. 2R. All of the apartments had a separate entrance than the deli that was further down the block past the deli on 4th Ave. The problem was that the cross street (let's call it 5th Street) also had an building with the same number two doors down, and for whatever reason, Google Maps put the address marker for the entirety of 123 4th Ave on 5th Street, and even more annoyingly, they showed the way of getting to my apartment as going into the deli's entrance first, which made no sense because there is absolutely no way to get to the apartments from inside the deli without either going outside or I guess teleporting through the ceiling. When trying to get something delivered to my apartment, the delivery people would often look at Google Maps, see the marker on 5th Street, look for the 123 marker, and then go and ring the bell for 123 5th Street instead of actually going onto 4th Ave and ringing our bell. I tried to contact Google Maps to get this addressed (pun intended), but I was told that they did not have a way to have separate entrances for different parts of the same address, and they told me to get a new separate address from the city. I responded that the city of New York would probably not issue a new address for a building I didn't own and that they could solve the problem by just moving the pin over to the 4th Ave side of the corner instead of the 5th Street side since the entrance pointed out diagonally and no one would have trouble finding it still if they did that. I never got a response, and all of my attempts to submit a correction directly got ignored. |
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| ▲ | madamelic 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | When I lived in Jersey City, I committed the crime of living at a 1/2 address. Literally nothing could get delivered to me if they used a Google Maps address bar. My address just didn't exist at all to that search bar. It could be found on maps, just not on that little search bar widget. I ended up just putting my neighbors address and either intercepting delivery drivers or putting in the notes that I was at the half address next door. Moral of the story: check your potential address BEFORE you move in | | |
| ▲ | saghm an hour ago | parent [-] | | It's pretty messed up that the only way to "solve" this problem is by treating addresses that Google mishandles as uninhabitable, but I'd be lying if I didn't tell my wife I was concerned about living on a corner again when we were looking for houses to buy after that (luckily, the one we liked most and had our offer accepted for wasn't on a corner, and our plan is to never move again!) |
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| ▲ | qingcharles 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Friend owns a construction company. Been at same address for seven years. Suddenly their Google Business Page not working right. Google says to delete it and reverify, only solution to try. Four times my friend had to take a video: you have to start by standing on the street on the nearest intersection, film all the street signs around you to prove your location, then he had to walk down the street, show the gate with the business name on it, the vehicles with the business name on them, open the front door with the business name on it, give them a tour of the working office and show them invoices and bank statements laid out on the desk with their logo etc on it. Three times they came back and said it wasn't enough to verify. At the same time you can go on swapd and buy GBP verification for $500 and have it verified in an hour by someone who fakes the entire thing. |
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| ▲ | cube00 an hour ago | parent [-] | | You can bet those videos have been fed into their training. |
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| ▲ | sixtiethutopia an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If we're sharing problems contributing to google maps: I tried submitting a correction to google maps for the first time a few months back. A cafe was listed in the wrong location by about 100m. Very confusingly putting it on the other side of the station it's in front of in a different building. I submitted the correct location and it said the change required manual review. Then a few days later I got an email that the change has been accepted. But opening google maps it was still in the same wrong location, and it's still wrong now. |
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| ▲ | thesuitonym an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'm surprised you tried so many times to do Google's job for them. |
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| ▲ | chrisandchris 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I tried to remove a not-anoymore-existing company I had a business profile before from Google Maps. I was close to giving up, it's such a complicated process that is fully intransparent. Kudos for you for trying 4 times. |
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| ▲ | nkrisc 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | The lesson here is: don’t do free work for corporations. | | |
| ▲ | wat10000 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't even fill out surveys anymore for the most part, unless it gets me a discount or something. |
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| ▲ | lern_too_spel an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Did you add a website like https://www.tesla.com/findus?location=daegususeongsupercharg...? It's hard to reject an edit if you have confirmation from the owner. |