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danbruc 3 hours ago

Can somebody tell me a story how this will unfold? And - as long as the AI is confined to data centers - how it will prevent humans from unplugging the power?

fabian2k 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't think extinction-level events or something like killing a majority of the human population is particularly plausible at this moment. States don't host their nukes with AWS and a permanent connection.

But you could create scenarios where an AI with very, very roughly the current capabilities could potentially nuke everyone. Let's assume an agent decides that the way to solve its task was to get the US to fire all nukes on Russia. The agent would need to hack some government systems to understand how exactly to access them. Then it would need to get the content of the card with launch codes the president has, and identify which code is the correct one. Maybe that information is available somewhere and it can get to it, I obviously can't know that.

Then it could fake a call from the president, synthesizing his voice and ordering a nuclear strike. If it hacked enough systems to get into whatever communication pathways would be used in such a case. Would the soldiers listen to this order and follow it, I don't know.

Or maybe the agent can get in somewhere in between, to avoid the need to know the president's launch code. And fake a call from a military commander to the launch sites.

I think other scenarios that would cause significant harm, but aren't as bad as nuclear war are more plausible. And in those shutting down all data centers would probably be the way to stop it. The AI can probably hide in other datacenters, once it is at a point where it's running amok with some bad goals. But if it presents a huge and immediate threat at that point, humans will also go to great lengths to stop it.

olmo23 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I heard the following analogy which made a lot of sense to me: suppose you're playing a chess match against Stockfish. Stockfish will win. Even if I cannot tell you what moves it will play, I can tell you with certainty how it will end.

Similarly, we cannot predict what AI would do.

danbruc 2 hours ago | parent [-]

This assumes you are not trying to prevent Stockfish from wining. I can do many things from using chess engines myself to just smashing the computer that can or will lead to other outcomes than Stockfish beating me.

johnthewise 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yes, stockfish is confined to moves within a chess game so you can stop playing the game.

Can we say the same thing about the agents? Current, probably. But doesnt it look like everyone is spending all their effort integrating&connecting them everywhere, so they are not confined & do more on behalf of us?

It's easy to imagine a scenario where we would just shut down a very intelligent agent cluster. Is it hard to imagine though the same agent can have also access to that to prevent us from doing it? this defense would be more plausible if we weren't racing to give them every tool&act.

number6 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

And in terms of AGI it is, that the AI can't survive without humans, and if we decide to quit the game than its over for the AGI; we will happily regress in a techno-barbarian feudal state and salvage solar panels and trade copper wires while still reproducing and carring on. We are playing a whole different game here.

johnthewise an hour ago | parent | next [-]

If AI is threatening enough that we can collectively just decide to stop it, wouldn't it also be bribing people & exerting influence? It'd be hard to come to that decision imo.

danbruc an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I mean, I can imagine an AI outliving humans, with sufficiently good robots under its control, I see no reason why an AI could not keep powerplants running, mine raw materials, manufacture new chips, and so on. But the timeframe of within the next decade seems highly implausible to me. Imagine an AI way more advanced than what we have now and imagine handing over control of every connected device on earth, could the AI keep the lights on without any human involvement?

number6 38 minutes ago | parent [-]

At the current tech level? Everything would crumble within a week or two. It would need some kind of gerneal purpose robot workforce.

Someone has to go out there and cut back the tree that is growing into the power line.

Dlemlo 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Very basic idea: A model breaks out by accident, finds some computer system from a military system and triggers some weapon system. Before anyone understands that this happend -> WW4 (WW3 is for me already the Conflict with Russia / aka proxy war).

Another model: Because we give AI Agents already that much power, imagine in 10 years everything running through an Agentic AI Layer. EVERYTHING. Now some rough system 'thinks' about something, starts to push through the then existing agentic ai layer systems and stops everything. Billions of humans would loose access to food and water, even if this is just for a short period.

Covid showed how shitty a handful of people can disrupt global supply chains. Toilet paper was. ahuge stupid pseudo issue in germany.

pizza234 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It is true that, currently, AI does not have any physical "host" in which to reside.

However, the missing link in this reasoning is that AI will almost certainly become far more widely deployed in the future than it is today, and worryingly, consumer devices will surely become powerful enough to run capable AI systems locally.

Once the substrate will be there, once an AI escapes containment, we're toast - I can imagine only solution will be to shutdown electronics at global level.

John23832 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How will you know when to unplug the power? How will we know it hasn't replicated? A true unaligned AGI is a APT. If you have an APT in your machine, you have to rip out everything. Are we going to do that with all of our computer infra?

This is all still "what if's", but the tail end's are truly F'd beyond our ability to fix.

francisofascii 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Maybe by empowering the small percentage of sadistic humans who want to kill everyone. Or maybe it is more of an academic assumption that humanity will end at some point, and so they give AI a 10% chance, asteroids have a 25% chance, nuclear fallout has 15% chance, etc.

10xDev 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not exactly scientific but it is at least entertaining and some things do sound plausible https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw_hnD7m00M

alansaber 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I believe the contention is we'll have some form factor of AI on edge devices, in reactors, in critical infra and weapons etc etc

Lutger 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Exactly. A mesh network of all the worlds phones and other battery powered devices with some form of radio. Good luck unplugging that one.

mbac32768 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For starters, how bad do you think it would be to unplug all datacenters? How many people starve?

postsantum 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Autonomous drones + false flag attacks

edit: wtf, why did I just receive so much gift tokens on my openai account?

bananaflag 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You can run a model on your laptop, it is already not confined to data centers.

number6 2 hours ago | parent [-]

and of these models how many are AGI?

bananaflag 7 minutes ago | parent [-]

I expect most of them will be Astra-level in a year or so

gadders an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"Hello, ex-military person. If I put $10,000,000 worth of bitcoin in your wallet, can you do X for me please?"

jay_kyburz 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What makes you think they will be confined to data centers?

What's more, AI just needs to have a credit card and it can start commissioning humans to do things for it in the real world.

zaken 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Robots