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sdcfgy 2 hours ago

My take home from this entire drama is that one should not use LLM services for confidential or proprietary information as they all seem to be run by assholes. And you’re sending them everything you are doing. Would you send your lab notebook to an asshole? Hell no.

I say that as a mathematician (on paper) who perhaps surprisingly doesn’t give a crap about the problem itself.

pansa2 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> one should not use LLM services for confidential or proprietary information

That’s obvious, isn’t it? Just like you wouldn’t upload your confidential documents to an online spellchecker, or your proprietary code to an online compiler?

sdcfgy 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Everyone, including the security services in my country, uses OneDrive and O365.

I don’t get it.

palata an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Or you wouldn't write confidential emails in Outlook and have confidential conversations in Teams. Obviously. Right? Right?

hn993302 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Or if you're going to trust one of them, maybe it shouldn't be OpenAI

sdcfgy an hour ago | parent [-]

Why would I trust any of them?

johanvts 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Or use Lumo from Proton. Are there any other privacy first companies offering LLMs?

irthomasthomas an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Chutes.ai models are served from a Trusted Execution Environment, so the GPU owners can't see your prompts.

Cider9986 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Lumo seems the most reputable. There's confer.to, duck.ai, and nanogpt.

Blikkentrekker 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That they do it is just concerning to me in that it says that home-ran models just aren't good enough. Surely researchers like this have the processing power to run them at home, they just don't have the processing power to train models of comparable level.

This is something I feared would happen and where open source would be left behind. Maybe they can do something with crowd-sourcing computational power from volunteirs. They were after all able to get Leela Chess Zero to be comparable to AlphaZero by training from volunteer processing power but it seems to me we live in a world now where the best models keep their stuff closed.

In imagine generation too. I'm not sure how well Stable Diffusion can compete in following instructions with all those advanced models that are kept secret.

isaacfrond an hour ago | parent [-]

> Surely researchers like this have the processing power to run them at home,

Nobody has that power. Certainly not mathematicians.

walrus01 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> as they all seem to be run by assholes.

Wait until you learn how many other SaaS and web 2.0 and cloud based things are also run by assholes.

You know this metaphor? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down

But instead of turtles, it's assholes.

But more seriously, no, none of what I wrote above is an attempt to excuse or play down the specific role of assholes in large AI companies.

sdcfgy 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Of course. I work for assholes. The thing is they’re getting out assholed by several orders of magnitude here.

dotancohen an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

  > Wait until you learn how many other SaaS and web 2.0 and cloud based things are also run by assholes.
Though it's not the real acronym, Larry Ellison himself has stated that Oracle stands for One Real Asshole Called Larry Ellison. He famously prides himself on it.
junofan 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Their privacy policy for normie subscribers says in plain English they use your Personal Data for research. I think it’s pretty unreasonable to use the service and expect otherwise.

hansvm 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

My doctor's privacy policy is a bit more abusive than OpenAI's. It exists mostly because of a $%^&&* legal framework rather than malice, and I've grown accustomed to "if I don't want to die then I sign away these rights." Despite my having theoretically signed my soul away, my doctor isn't selling personal information to my exes or to life insurance companies (though they could in the US; that extremely personal information is no longer mine). OpenAI is engaging in the "technically legal maybe we'll see but obviously unintended" side of this transaction, and maybe that works out for them, but I wouldn't personally choose to be a shill for "it's unreasonble to expect somebody with 'legal' permission to do something other than the maximum 'legally' permitted" if I were in your shoes.

grey-area 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think those are pretty unreasonable terms and it’s sad that you’re defending them.

Does google docs own the content of docs you make with it? Does Apple claim ownership of discoveries made using their tools?

ZeWaka 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>implying most users read them

sdcfgy 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If that is the case, why on earth would you use it in any professional setting?

andersmurphy 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You'd think theft would still be illegal regardless of what a privacy policy says.

shiandow 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think it’s pretty unreasonable to use the service.

AlphaSite 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There’s an opt out so I’m blade for now.