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LG TVs caught spying even when offline or on standby(theverge.com)
111 points by sbulaev an hour ago | 32 comments
dathery 3 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> In July this year, the channel flagged that some LG monitors were automatically installing an app that collected device data and ran pop-up ads for LG’s other apps and even McAfee antivirus. The public pressure from that video prompted an intervention from Microsoft, and ultimately led to LG disabling the pop-up ads.

Can anyone explain why Windows even makes this possible? I had to fight against Windows installing Alienware command center nonsense automatically because I have a "gaming" Dell OLED. Windows automatically fetched and installed it just from plugging in the monitor, adding a new system tray icon and persistent daemon with these kinds of annoying pop-ups and probably a bunch of security vulnerabilities.

It's completely incomprehensible to me. The monitor works great without it, on both Windows and Linux! I left a negative review on an otherwise good monitor as a result, but Microsoft shouldn't even be entertaining this crap.

miguel-muniz 17 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wish there was some regulation that would force TVs to have a "dumb" mode. When the colors on our previous living room TV started to go out my dad ended up buying a new huge Vizio during black friday for really cheap. He left it to me to set up, since I'm the tech guy of the family, as you all probably understand.

I was surprised that the first thing I was prompted to do was to download an app and sign up for an account. The TV would not work unless I was signed in (or at the very least the option was so well hidden I didn't see one). Of course the sign up asks for PII like my name and phone number.

Vizio was bought out by Walmart a while back, with the intent of expanding Walmart's advertising empire.

It's really unfortunate that the TV market has ended up the way it has. My family still has a few CRTs going that have been working every day for decades, just turn it on and TV immediately starts playing. I miss that level of simplicity.

Jonnax 23 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Is there anyone who has done a technical write up and investigation into the firmwares?

Like reverse engineering how the software on the TVs work.

Also what third parties are involved.

I have a feeling there must be some third party vendor selling the same toolkit that manufacturers use.

Would be nice to figure out if it's possible to send junk data to the endpoints.

johannes1234321 2 minutes ago | parent [-]

LG for large parts of the product series use WebOS, which was the OS of the shortlived attempt by Palm to compete in the smartphone market with iPhone, which then changed hands a bit till landing there.

designerarvid 6 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Is there some way to jailbreak your tv and run som open source os on it? Or something like that?

Not exactly sure what I’m after, but the problem is acute and widely prevalent, so there has to be some solution.

sroussey an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

All smart TVs should be disconnected from the internet. Use an AppleTV or similar.

dspillett 18 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Some TVs will present a popover warning that they have not been able to check for updates for a while, after being disconnected for some time, and you can't close that without letting them connect (even if you are just using the screen to display content from an HDMI slot rather than using any of the other TV features).

mszcz 10 minutes ago | parent [-]

Which ones? I'd be happy to know the brands.

richjdsmith a minute ago | parent [-]

Samsung TVs certainly do. A massive PITA.

Cpoll 39 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not sufficient, given reports of TVs and other devices automatically creating mesh networks. Your disconnected TV could talk to your neighbour's connected one. If anything, I wonder why LG isn't already doing it.

deadbunny 36 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Could you link to these reports, the ones with evidence?

Lammy 21 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

If something is technically possible, one should act as though it is already happening and hope to be wrong rather than refusing to consider the issue until sufficient “proof” is given, by which it will be too late. Doubly so when advertisers are involved, who as a group are economically-incentivized to not care about consent.

deadbunny 10 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

This would be trivial to test and detect. Just like every claim that TVs will connect to open WiFi networks if you don't connect them to a network. Yet after years of these claims and being extremely trivial to test not a single shred of evidence has ever been provided.

nickff 16 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

This seems paranoid. There are many things which are technically possible, but there is no evidence of some super-advertiser doing. It's not even clear to me that much of the 'fingerprinting' (past basic re-targeting) actually works.

privong 10 minutes ago | parent [-]

> This seems paranoid. There are many things which are technically possible, but [...]

Isn't this what people said pre-Snowden? Not that NSA spying is the same as corporate "surveillance capitalism", but if companies can make more money off it and the technology exists, it seems prudent to assume companies are trying it.

nickff 5 minutes ago | parent [-]

There was evidence of the NSA intercepting international communications before Snowden, but for some reason that didn't seem to make much of a lasting impression: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

It's also significant to note that while the government is quite bad at keeping 'problematic' behavior secret, companies are much worse at it.

Arainach 26 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/28/23659191/amazon-sidewalk-...

azernik 16 minutes ago | parent [-]

That is an article saying that mesh networking frameworks exist. It does not support the GP claim of smart TVs creating mesh networks across different owners.

coldpie 18 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Unless you have evidence, please stop spreading this rumor.

tshaddox 30 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I’ve heard rumors of that, and also of TVs shipping with cellular modems with which to phone home. I don’t know if either have been confirmed, but it would be ridiculous for such a thing to be legal.

coldpie 16 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

It's a longstanding, and obviously false, rumor. It would be trivial to prove that these things connect to open wifi networks to phone home, but no one has ever proved that they do that, because they don't actually do that. It would be a little harder, but still very easy, to prove that they connect to cell networks, but no one has proved that they do that either, because they don't actually do that either.

Keeping them disconnected from wifi is sufficient.

nickff 18 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Cellular modems seem unlikely, because both they and the service plan they'd need are too expensive to be justified by any benefit to the manufacturer.

Jonnax 28 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Which manufacturers and which TVs?

Otherwise it's just some 10+ year old rumour

krtkush 38 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have connected it to my network and then blocked it off the internet via Pi-hole. That way, I hope, it'll not try to scan for other open networks.

dogcow 23 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

That's not really sufficient. It could still phone home if it falls back to IP addresses. You should be blocking it at the firewall level, not just with DNS.

But me personally, I wouldn't ever connect any of these devices to my network.

orev 27 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

It’s still scanning (or at least listening to) all the other devices on your local network, like your phones, PCs, etc. It collects an inventory and if it ever happens to get Internet access, uploads that data.

ihsw an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

All smart TVs should not come with WiFi or Ethernet controllers.

ralferoo 31 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

https://archive.is/zmCOd

ortusdux 33 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I've said it before, but I wish a somewhat trustworthy organization would create a 'DUMB' certification - "Don't Upload My Bits".

slackfan 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

But I was reliably informed this never happens! (Reasons I own an NEC commercial display instead)

Jonnax 26 minutes ago | parent [-]

By who? Manufacturers have been public about selling viewing data and put it in their user agreements.

ChrisArchitect an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49592375