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Grombobulous 2 hours ago

Here’s the thing though: if even some of the examples given in the state department page are true (some of them are rather silly), that A/I knowingly provided services to groups that verifiably did some rather violent things they are accused of, I’m not sure how they expected to hide behind their mission.

My impression is that they didn’t say “hey we don’t have customer information but we don’t service violent groups and we will responsibly investigate and discontinue service to offenders.”

Their vibe was much more defiant, like, “we designed this to be anonymous and specifically intend/expect for it to be used in any way regardless of legality and are okay with it.”

Is it right for the US to be the global arbiter of this issue and domains in general? Of course not.

pepperoni_pizza 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> “we designed this to be anonymous and specifically intend/expect for it to be used in any way regardless of legality and are okay with it.”

That is also what Signal does. Or absolutely any end-to-end encrypted communication service at all - these are explicitly designed not to retain details of communication.

Do you want to declare them terrorists too?

Grombobulous 2 hours ago | parent [-]

What Signal does is different than what A/I was in a number of ways.

sph an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Which terrorists and criminals are texting right now on Signal? You (and hopefully Signal) have no idea whatsover, that's the point of privacy.

Now, if you are against private conversations, please state so clearly so we know which side of the fence you lean towards.

boesboes an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I disagree in more ways, so that invalidates your comment xoxox

pepperoni_pizza 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You won't elaborate though, just make vague accusations.

ricardobeat an hour ago | parent [-]

I think the difference they alluded to is that they manually vetoed new users, presumably based on their self-declared goals and ideology, whereas Signal etc are neutral platforms.

pepperoni_pizza an hour ago | parent | next [-]

The A/I vetting was in the form of a form asking why do you want A/I email or blog. You could write anything in it.

Meanwhile, Signal requires a phone number, so it knows much more about your identity than A/I did.

SpicyLemonZest 37 minutes ago | parent [-]

How do you know what the A/I vetting consisted of or what standards they held? They don't seem to have published any detailed description of the process, and by their own account they destroyed all records of the vetting after approval.

Grombobulous an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah I didn’t elaborate since this was explained elsewhere in the thread.

Jeff_Brown 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Please elaborate!

fl0id 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

in interviews, they said if you give them examples of "xyz" is prohibited by applicable law, they would remove it. They would not help you spy on them probably, by backdooring their infra or sth.

ceejayoz 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> A/I knowingly provided services to groups that verifiably did some rather violent things they are accused of

If that's disqualifying, a lot of US government contractors are in trouble.

Grombobulous 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This isn’t a “gotcha.”

There are very logical reasons why the state wielding force and violence is preferable to the alternatives (gangs, cartels, etc).

ceejayoz 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> There are very logical reasons why the state wielding force and violence is preferable to the alternatives…

Seems like there are some pretty clear historical exceptions to this rule.

Grombobulous an hour ago | parent [-]

That’s absolutely true.

We can also pragmatically understand why having rules around about not starting violent revolutions, especially when we’ve already established an okay-ish democratic system, generally benefits most people.

ceejayoz an hour ago | parent [-]

> we’ve already established an okay-ish democratic system

We have pardoned Jan 6ers convicted of "wielding force and violence" for political goals in goverment positions now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch is uncomfortably close to the situation.

SpicyLemonZest 40 minutes ago | parent [-]

And everyone involved in hiring and pardoning them should go to prison. I can't speak for everyone, but many of us really do have a principled opposition to political violence.

stanleykm 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

well depends on if you are in the group the state is wielding that power for or not..

an hour ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
beej71 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Or J6.

2 hours ago | parent [-]
[deleted]