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InsideOutSanta 4 hours ago

I hereby designate the US government an international terrorist organization.

mcv 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah, but do you control international banking the way they do? That's ultimately how they're able to do this.

Frieren an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> Yeah, but do you control international banking the way they do?

This is why Europe needs to detach itself from the American banking system.

It used to be very practical to use it. Countries renounced to some sovereignty in exchange for ease of doing business. The USA had an advantage but it didn't abuse it too much.

The current situation is that the USA is asking to forfeit sovereignty and to control business in an ideological basis. There is a strong incentive to leave that system as the alternative is become a colony of the USA. And the push for colonization is not subtle as the president takes over other countries resources like Venezuela's oil or tries to take control of the straight of Hormuz (None part of the USA at this moment)

graemep 29 minutes ago | parent [-]

At the moment Europe is getting more reliant on the US. There are new non-Us payment systems but the end user devices are Apple or Google controlled. Governments and banks are very eager to get rid of cash, to introduce digital ID etc. That all relies on American platforms.

Frieren 15 minutes ago | parent [-]

> That all relies on American platforms.

Totally true. The EU needs its own platforms, I hope that better regulated than their USA counterparts. Linux started in Europe, it should have been promoted more for internal usage. But privatization of state-owned companies made it ideologically impossible to push for it. Public good was seen as "bad" and "against business", I hope that the obvious failure of that policy makes it now a possibility to use Linux.

JeffRosenberg an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What I find wild is that this control over international banking, and the sanctions it enables, is a key benefit of the US-led world order that Trump is trying to dismantle. I’m quite sure he doesn’t understand this, but a key consequence of his efforts to stop the US from getting “ripped off” is that we will soon no longer have the ability to impose these sorts of sanctions as the global economy re-routes around American control.

toomuchtodo 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Which is why efforts by China to stand up independent cross border payment rails are important. You have to cut the US out of any ability to control activities outside of their boundaries.

China, Egypt to do away with the use of the US dollar - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49555056 - September 2026

China nears launch of mBridge as alternative to Swift - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48636931 - June 2026

bpavuk 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

and Europe. Europe should also decouple itself from the U.S. as much as it is possible, and not repeat the mistake of overreliance with China. not because China is somehow worse, but because you always should be able to say "no", no matter how good your partners are

RonanSoleste 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Europe is decoupling itself all ready also. Using SEPA-Inst and wero.

swiftcoder 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Unfortunately decoupling payments within the EU is insufficient if the US can just threaten to sanction your bank, and in doing so force the bank to drop you as a customer. Even in the presence of an internal European payments network, those banks still need to transact with the US and other US-sphere countries...

mahkeiro 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

No but then you can have local bank that will not have US interactions but can still serve you. Since the French judge of the IPC was sanctioned, it’s clear that the EU must completely decouple from the US.

toomuchtodo 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

For now, but not forever. Skate to where the puck is going to be. Decoupling continues, with the target being independence. Quote this comment five years from now.

toomuchtodo 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They are.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49225112

iwontberude 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

graemep 25 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

So the rest of the world has the option of relying on China instead? How is that better?

mandolingual 9 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

A small third party at the junction of two giants is infinitely more powerful than a small third party obliged to be the client of one.

toomuchtodo 16 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

It’s a valid question. More options are better. China, Europe, etc. A component of my work has been securing these types of value movement rails, so I am familiar with the level of effort required to stand them up and operate them. Resiliency through diversity. You’re just moving messages (which represent value movement) around a message bus, fundamentally.

Very similar to how “the Internet treats censorship as a defect and routes around it.” —- John Gilmore

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Gilmore

NBJack 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They already know what they are. There are good reasons the term "terrorist" has yet to be formally agreed upon among members of the United Nations.

what_hn 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

But meaning what

mag7269 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

InsideOutSanta 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

How many of these millions only had to migrate to the US because the US destroyed their countries with war, economic sanctions, covert CIA operations, or other attacks?

hugodan 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A/I shuts down

hiddencost 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As Stephen Miller loves to remind us, we had the first net emigration in decades this year. They're rounding up legal immigrants and putting them in concentration camps where they're dying because they're being denied medical care.

customguy 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you don't see an issue with the White House constantly posting straight up Nazi memes then that's on you. There's also plenty immigrants in Europe who vote for fascists, so? Turns out you can't just leave your "former" country behind like an old coat, it's still your upbringing and horizon. You are grateful "to the country", but what does that mean while also shrugging off what the people in "the country" are saying? What is left of "the country"? A bunch of papers, rights and money, opportunities for you; let the goons roam and fill their warehouses, keep children, even infants in despicable conditions, because you (think you) have nothing to fear?

drivingmenuts 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Some of y'all are from countries that are in great turmoil.

Which is partly or mostly our fault.

Maybe we could concentrate on doing less of that.

what_hn 3 hours ago | parent [-]

It really is not the fault of the US that Mexico has drug gangs that kill people at random. It's not the fault that Pakistan and India are nearly at war forever. It's not the US fault that many countries support and require female genital mutilation. The US is not as evil as you think.

InsideOutSanta 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> It really is not the fault of the US that Mexico has drug gangs that kill people at random

This is a direct result of the "war on drugs" perpetrated by the US.

The other two are genuinely not the fault of the US, but bringing up two examples where the US wasn't the source of the problem doesn't exactly contradict the original claim.

throwitaway222 an hour ago | parent [-]

The war on drugs definitely didn't cause the drug trade or the murders. If anything it's the fault of leftist US government stance on drugs that weaken border security and allow drugs to get in (and therefore fund more drugs to be produced). And besides all that, the drug trade has been going on for far longer than you know. And including the murders.

> Which is partly or mostly our fault.

It does contradict the original claim because it's 3 examples of things we didn't cause - and he said "mostly our fault". If it takes 3 seconds to think of things we didn't cause, then the world's craziness is not mostly the fault of America. Mostly the US has a hand in stopping communist governments where the citizens are kept as slaves.

beedeebeedee 35 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> The war on drugs definitely didn't cause the drug trade or the murders.

Have to stop you right there. The “war on drugs” absolutely has created the conditions for the drug trade and the murders. If you criminalize a large part of the economy, then only criminals will profit from it. If we had sane drug policy, there would not be the profit that attracts these criminals. Additionally, the US intelligence services (and other nations) have a long documented role in cultivating the drug trade for diverse reasons: for profit and paying for operations, for control of regions, and to provide a reservoir of violence to disguise or facilitate their work.

InsideOutSanta an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> The war on drugs definitely didn't cause the drug trade or the murders

You should be a lot less confident in your opinions. The war on drugs required violent interventions against drug production in Mexico, which directly created militarized, violent drug cartels.

Example: pressured by the US, Felipe Calderón launched Operation Michoacán in 2006 with U.S. backing and funding. He deployed tens of thousands of federal forces. Mexico has recorded more than 463,000 homicides since that declaration of war on the cartels, a huge increase.

Just look at the data.

> and he said "mostly our fault". If it takes 3 seconds to think of things we didn't cause

He said "mostly" because he knows there are counterexamples, so providing counterexamples doesn't contradict his point.

> Mostly the US has a hand in stopping communist governments where the citizens are kept as slaves.

This is such a genuinely undiscriminating statement that I can't help but categorize it as dumb. I don't usually say this, but you need to stop listening to propaganda and pick up a few actual history books. Until you do, any discussion is pointless, because you're so stuck in your ideology that facts can't penetrate the bubble.

That's really all I have for you. It's up to you to fix yourself.

nullsanity 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

aliasxneo 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

sph 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> HN is extremely left-leaning

What kind of mickey mouse political left are you using for reference here? The Dems?

HN is extremely american-leaning, whose centre is firmly to the right compared to the rest of the world.

dgellow 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> whose centre is firmly to the right compared to the rest of the world.

Not really, no. Most of the world is under authoritarian regimes that would be seen as more right leaning. Most democracies are also right leaning. What characterizes the US is being extremely capitalistic and pro-corporations

aliasxneo 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> HN is extremely american-leaning

I would agree that's true for Y Combinator, but my experience in the HN _community_ for almost a decade now has suggested that the heavy anti-American sentiment started right around the start of the current administration.

InsideOutSanta an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> anti-American sentiment

It's always a bit upsetting to me when people conflate criticism of aspects of a country (like its government) with being against that country. I would rather say that it shows that people are pro that country and want it to do better.

an hour ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
Petersipoi 38 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

America has the most progressive tax system in the world. There is no other country where the ultra rich pay such percentage of the tax burden. Fuck off with this "Left in the US is center in Europe" bullshit. The EU wishes they were as left as us in a lot of areas.

edit: Because this is HN and a lot of you are learning this for the first time:

US: $60k salary leads to $50k take home pay, then a less than 10% sales tax

Denmark: $60k salary leads to $38k take home pay, then a 25% sales tax

All that money you're losing in Denmark is paying for you shittier healthcare.

Welcome to a small taste of being outside your echo chamber.

3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
mag7269 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]