Yeah, but do you control international banking the way they do? That's ultimately how they're able to do this.

> Yeah, but do you control international banking the way they do?

This is why Europe needs to detach itself from the American banking system.

It used to be very practical to use it. Countries renounced to some sovereignty in exchange for ease of doing business. The USA had an advantage but it didn't abuse it too much.

The current situation is that the USA is asking to forfeit sovereignty and to control business in an ideological basis. There is a strong incentive to leave that system as the alternative is become a colony of the USA. And the push for colonization is not subtle as the president takes over other countries resources like Venezuela's oil or tries to take control of the straight of Hormuz (None part of the USA at this moment)

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graemep 28 minutes ago | parent [-]

At the moment Europe is getting more reliant on the US. There are new non-Us payment systems but the end user devices are Apple or Google controlled. Governments and banks are very eager to get rid of cash, to introduce digital ID etc. That all relies on American platforms.

	▲	Frieren 14 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		> That all relies on American platforms. Totally true. The EU needs its own platforms, I hope that better regulated than their USA counterparts. Linux started in Europe, it should have been promoted more for internal usage. But privatization of state-owned companies made it ideologically impossible to push for it. Public good was seen as "bad" and "against business", I hope that the obvious failure of that policy makes it now a possibility to use Linux.

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JeffRosenberg an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What I find wild is that this control over international banking, and the sanctions it enables, is a key benefit of the US-led world order that Trump is trying to dismantle. I’m quite sure he doesn’t understand this, but a key consequence of his efforts to stop the US from getting “ripped off” is that we will soon no longer have the ability to impose these sorts of sanctions as the global economy re-routes around American control.

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toomuchtodo 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Which is why efforts by China to stand up independent cross border payment rails are important. You have to cut the US out of any ability to control activities outside of their boundaries.

China, Egypt to do away with the use of the US dollar - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49555056 - September 2026

China nears launch of mBridge as alternative to Swift - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48636931 - June 2026

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bpavuk 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

and Europe. Europe should also decouple itself from the U.S. as much as it is possible, and not repeat the mistake of overreliance with China. not because China is somehow worse, but because you always should be able to say "no", no matter how good your partners are

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RonanSoleste 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Europe is decoupling itself all ready also. Using SEPA-Inst and wero.

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swiftcoder 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Unfortunately decoupling payments within the EU is insufficient if the US can just threaten to sanction your bank, and in doing so force the bank to drop you as a customer. Even in the presence of an internal European payments network, those banks still need to transact with the US and other US-sphere countries...

	▲	mahkeiro 2 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		No but then you can have local bank that will not have US interactions but can still serve you. Since the French judge of the IPC was sanctioned, it’s clear that the EU must completely decouple from the US.
	▲	toomuchtodo 2 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		For now, but not forever. Skate to where the puck is going to be. Decoupling continues, with the target being independence. Quote this comment five years from now.

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toomuchtodo 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They are.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49225112

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iwontberude 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

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graemep 24 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

So the rest of the world has the option of relying on China instead? How is that better?

	▲	mandolingual 8 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		A small third party at the junction of two giants is infinitely more powerful than a small third party obliged to be the client of one.
	▲	toomuchtodo 14 minutes ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		It’s a valid question. More options are better. China, Europe, etc. A component of my work has been securing these types of value movement rails, so I am familiar with the level of effort required to stand them up and operate them. Resiliency through diversity. You’re just moving messages (which represent value movement) around a message bus, fundamentally. Very similar to how “the Internet treats censorship as a defect and routes around it.” —- John Gilmore https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Gilmore