| ▲ | GPT-6 Astra on OpenRouter(openrouter.ai) |
| 154 points by Topfi 7 hours ago | 77 comments |
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| ▲ | simonw 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| I posted this in the other Astra thread but it's just fallen off the homepage, so... Pelicans from Astra, plus 5.6 Sol, Terra, Luna for comparison: https://static.simonwillison.net/static/2026/gpt-6-and-5.6-p... I think this is a genuinely interesting comparison grid. Astra may be more expensive, but if you have a budget of 10 cents for a Pelican Astra low gives you something SO much better than the other models. Astra uses less tokens overall too, for better results. Astra transcript here: https://tools.simonwillison.net/markdown-svg-renderer?url=ht... |
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| ▲ | threatripper 29 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | It seems to start understanding how bicycles work. Look at the front fork. There are reasons why it's shaped the way it is in real bicycles. If you do physical simulations in 3D with reinforcement learning you will start understanding that most of the arrangements that the other agents use just won't work. | |
| ▲ | steve-atx-7600 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You would not expect the developers of the model to optimize for a well known benchmark? | | |
| ▲ | simonw 5 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Here's 'Generate an SVG of a ring-tailed lemur riding an electric scooter' at reasoning level max: https://tools.simonwillison.net/markdown-svg-renderer?url=ht... Quote from the thinking trace: > I’m thinking about how a helmet would obscure lemur ears, but using an electric scooter helmet seems responsible. It's pretty solid - face is a little wonky but excellent tail and scooter. | |
| ▲ | y1n0 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I would expect it happens more organically where people’s discussion of the benchmark and posted results find their way into the training data, like anything else on the internet. | |
| ▲ | kibae an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There was a HN post that tested this hypothesis a few weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49010129 | |
| ▲ | Kranar 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What is this supposed to mean exactly? Do you think there are developers at OpenAI or Anthropic whose job is to train these state of the art models to draw pelicans riding bicycles? Like how exactly do you expect them to be doing that anyways? Hiring graphic artists to create SVGs of bike riding pelicans and feeding thousands of them into the model's training set? | | |
| ▲ | mudkipdev 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Generate two images, get a vision model to judge, then RL reward the better one. And yes, OpenAI employees on twitter bragged about the model's SVG capabilities. So there are clearly people working there who care about it. | |
| ▲ | awakeasleep 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You gotta look up how RLHF works before you ask a demanding question like this. |
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| ▲ | mi_lk 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It stopped being a valuable benchmark proxy quite a few model versions ago. Simon knows it, so is everyone who’s serious about it Treat it like a bit as is | | |
| ▲ | benatkin 44 minutes ago | parent [-] | | It's actually not just valuable, but infinitely valuable. Because it's imaginary, there is no way to do it perfectly, and thus the possibilities are endless, and it tests out both the formulation and execution of ideas. |
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| ▲ | jsdalton 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Simon do you have a page somewhere that shows _all_ of the penguins created by various models across time? You’ve been doing this public service for so long (well, for so long in “AI hype” years anyway) that it’d be fascinating to see the evolution of this artifact across time. | | |
| ▲ | simonw 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | For the moment the best place to see them all is to browse the tag on my blog - 140 posts now! https://simonwillison.net/tags/pelican-riding-a-bicycle/ I'm running out of excuses not to build a proper comparison site though. Maybe I'll have Astra do rhat. | | |
| ▲ | bahmboo 19 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Would be great to spend some money (other people's money) on paying some illustrators and artists to do the same for comparison. It could be straight images converted to SVG or direct vector graphics. |
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| ▲ | vb-8448 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I find curios that Astra's pelicans are basically the same (yellow sun top right corner, green bike, same bike shape, same legs style, very similar background) while in other there is more randomness. | | |
| ▲ | thimabi 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This tracks with what OpenAI has been saying about Astra: that it tends to do things in a certain way and it’s up to you to prompt it to change its style. | |
| ▲ | pizza234 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Astra is the only model that correctly depicts occlusion of crank and leg, although interestingly, at max and medium levels (not in between). | | |
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| ▲ | petilon 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Astra pelican looks amazing: it looks like it was made by a professional artist. All the others look like they were made by kindergartners. | |
| ▲ | PacificSpecific 30 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Fallen off the homepage so what? I genuinely don't understand | |
| ▲ | BrokenCogs 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Interesting that all of the bikes are turquoise colored, except for the medium effort | |
| ▲ | andai 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Oh my goodness. I was not prepared for Luna on "none". Reminded me of https://clocks.brianmoore.com/ | | | |
| ▲ | Xunjin 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Do you have other ideas of "combinations" for this kind of benchmark? I'm wondering if this is being trained on by the models today. | | |
| ▲ | r_lee 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I have a feeling they've been doing that for a while now, even if unintentional, as it's such a well known benchmark |
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| ▲ | kart23 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | radial spokes on the back wheel is not a thing irl. i wonder if any model has gotten that right? | |
| ▲ | bnorton 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You’re closer to this than I am but do you find it odd that helmets are almost never included? Biking is almost always accompanied by helmets | | |
| ▲ | maxlapdev 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | But pelicans are almost never accompanied by helmets, so it cancels out. | |
| ▲ | sumedh 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Biking is almost always accompanied by helmets Isnt Netherlands the leader in bike riders and they dont wear helmets. | |
| ▲ | neutronicus 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | At least one reasoning trace I saw considered a helmet and discarded the idea because it was worried about obscuring some detail |
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| ▲ | fHr 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Luna is my go to daily model it's great value | | |
| ▲ | tuo-lei 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Me toooo, for all my personal projects I need to pay for the tokens~
At workplace I use sol because I don't need to pay | |
| ▲ | ghthor 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Mine as well, it’s fast and keeps me in flow; and cheap! |
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| ▲ | lspears 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Luna's price seems off | | |
| ▲ | droidjj 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | The price is probably coming from when Luna was first released. OpenAI slashed the price by 80% at the end of July. | | |
| ▲ | simonw 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes! Good catch, thanks - I'll fix that. | | |
| ▲ | simonw 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I had the prices wrong on Sol and Terra as well - they've all had price drops: https://openai.com/index/advancing-the-price-performance-fro... Sol discount is until November 21, 2026 according to https://developers.openai.com/api/docs/changelog Luna — costs in cents
+--------+--------+---------+
| Effort | Before | After |
+--------+--------+---------+
| max | 7.83 | 1.57 |
| xhigh | 4.24 | 0.85 |
| high | 2.46 | 0.49 |
| medium | 1.26 | 0.25 |
| low | 0.76 | 0.15 |
| none | 0.71 | 0.14 |
+--------+--------+---------+
Per million tokens:
Before: $1 input / $6 output
After: $0.20 input / $1.20 output
Sol — costs in cents
+--------+--------+---------+
| Effort | Before | After |
+--------+--------+---------+
| max | 48.55 | 32.37 |
| xhigh | 24.11 | 16.08 |
| high | 10.38 | 6.92 |
| medium | 10.55 | 7.03 |
| low | 8.33 | 5.55 |
| none | 5.90 | 3.93 |
+--------+--------+---------+
Per million tokens:
Before: $5 input / $30 output
After: $4 input / $20 output
Terra — costs in cents
+--------+--------+---------+
| Effort | Before | After |
+--------+--------+---------+
| max | 32.09 | 25.67 |
| xhigh | 14.67 | 11.74 |
| high | 3.74 | 2.99 |
| medium | 3.46 | 2.77 |
| low | 3.47 | 2.78 |
| none | 2.60 | 2.08 |
+--------+--------+---------+
Per million tokens:
Before: $2.50 input / $15 output
After: $2 input / $12 output
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| ▲ | jjcm an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It's ability to handle non-90 degree cutouts and shapes for web dev is one of the best I've seen. The vision model on this is VERY capable. Here's an image design source of truth: https://image.non.io/78f4cd8b-2560-4643-9a51-96a89171f994.we... And here's the page it build from it: https://image.non.io/e7d3a9e5-f9df-4fd8-b79f-1f90280f978f.we... Note the flowing svg lines, and how accurately it recreated them. Here's Opus 5 for comparison - you can really see how while Astra really recreated the flow that was in the original design, opus only got the general vibe: https://image.non.io/dfe13de0-4487-431f-8b69-544ff3030dac.we... One thing I will say is you are paying for quality. That site build cost $24 - extremely non-trivial for a simple frontend. |
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| ▲ | XCSme 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| That's some crazy SVG generation: https://aibenchy.com/compare/openai-gpt-6-astra-high/google-... It took a while to test it, initially OpenRouter was giving Not Found errors for this model ID. |
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| ▲ | satvikpendem 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That's quite shocking, at a sufficiently advanced level we can make all non-realistic graphics purely out of SVGs, as they'd have good scaling for things like logos and app icons. I know it was technically and theoretically possible before AI but most people weren't spending hours tweaking SVG HTML. I remember making an SVG dark mode toggle icon and it took days to get it right, I assume it's one shottable now. | | |
| ▲ | dprkh 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I thought all the designers have been using vector graphics for a long time now. | | |
| ▲ | mceachen an hour ago | parent [-] | | Aldus Freehand 1.0 was released in 1988. Adobe Illustrator was first released in 1987. |
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| ▲ | kulahan 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That photo looks pretty hilariously stupid, so this appears to be more of a first toe dip rather than some indication we can one-shot a previously difficult process. | | |
| ▲ | appplication 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Sure, it is a bit cartoonish but it’s relatively impressive. I do wonder what you would get if you asked for photorealism | | |
| ▲ | redox99 15 minutes ago | parent [-] | | The problem is not photorealism. The SVG is outright dumb, its on the wrong side of the table, the table has fucked up geometry (its tilted) and many more minor flaws. |
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| ▲ | embedding-shape 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | At the bottom it says "Score 98.58", what measure is used for this score? It's kind of horrible, the perspective is all off (legs of the table makes that very obvious), the mouse/hamster has two mouths, a stub for a right paw, looks like left hand holds a melon on a stick or something, and there are pluses in the background for some reason. Not sure it'd call it "close to perfect" which the score seems to want to indicate. | | |
| ▲ | XCSme 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Do you prefer the fable one? It's more "correct" but looks a lot worse in my opinion: https://aibenchy.com/compare/openai-gpt-6-astra-high/google-... | | |
| ▲ | kulahan 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | No, both of them look awful. I genuinely am unsure if this is a meme you're making that's going over my head...? | | |
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| ▲ | XCSme 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yeah, that's confusing, the score is for the entire benchmark, not for SVG generation only. Good point about the mouths, I just noticed, lol Imo, it's still better than most models, I personally like the stylized perspective. You can view here all generations for all models: https://aibenchy.com/showcase/ | |
| ▲ | XCSme 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I've replaced "Score" there with model ranking, to reduce confusion, thanks for the feedback! |
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| ▲ | readams 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The Astra one looks pretty good except it's standing on the wrong side of the table |
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| ▲ | kingstnap 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Its also available finally to Pro users! Just took 24 hours. |
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| ▲ | InsideOutSanta 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | They gave out bankable resets for every day people on pro plans didn't get Astra. Given that, I wish they'd waited a few more days before activating it on my account :-D | | |
| ▲ | wincy 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | They haven’t activated Astra for me yet, I have two resets now. I’ve been using the opportunity to test out how good 5.6 Sol is at computer use asking it to generate stuff in Blender which has been… interesting Edit: nevermind it JUST gave me a notification to use it! | |
| ▲ | paxys 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That's a pretty genius internal incentive to move fast. | |
| ▲ | embedding-shape 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > They gave out bankable resets for every day people on pro plans didn't get Astra. Yeah, when I saw that Tweet I knew the person was saying it because they knew it'll be available within 24h. |
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| ▲ | sumedh 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Just got access to it on Plus plan in Australia. 2 Banked resets as well. |
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| ▲ | vb-8448 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Played in codex app a couple of hours today: it feels much faster than SOL, even if the TPS is half of it. |
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| ▲ | algoth1 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Just got it. European plus user here. Only codex, no chatgpt |
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| ▲ | jaesonaras 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Anyone had success using Astra as a Foundry model via Github Copilot? The error I get is that tooling is not available if reasoning has a value. |
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| ▲ | gavinray 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I have GPT-6 access in Codex and OpenAI API now I'm a Business plan user with Cyber verification enabled, FWIW. |
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| ▲ | embedding-shape 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Same just got access literally this minute, Pro user here, no Cyber verification but have passed my ID over to them back in 2024 or something, maybe at the ChatGPT 3 API launch or something? Has there been anything published about if Astra uses different amount of usage from your subscription plan compared to Sol? Don't recall coming across that in the press releases. |
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| ▲ | r_lee 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| is Azure for this actually ZDR? |
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| ▲ | starik36 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| What is the actual utility of using this model on Azure? It's twice as expensive, according to the link. Do Azure offer something that simply hitting the OpenAI endpoint doesn't provide? |
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| ▲ | hhh 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It's the same price as regular processing. You get guarantees microsoft give you, which are ones OpenAI won't (or require dedicated spend,) and you can use azure identities for access. | |
| ▲ | claiir 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | They’re ZDR and the OAI ones aren’t | | | |
| ▲ | itsjustkev 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Compared to OpenAI flex? I'm pretty sure that is their batch processing endpoint, which is naturally cheaper. |
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| ▲ | cute_boi 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I got it, but sadly no resets... |
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| ▲ | vatsachak 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Damn I am so hyped |
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| ▲ | 6thbit 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Invoking simonw for pelicans pretty please. |
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| ▲ | 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| [deleted] |
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| ▲ | Osama0456 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| is it finally available on openrouter and what about fable 5.1 |
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