The training data would need to have a permissive license for this to be possible.

embedding-shape an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Or, we just need to get this over with and declare any digital data findable via the internet to just be public property of everyone. Everything becomes public, besides stuff you keep locally, and there is no difference anymore, it's all just data anyone can use for whatever. A 1 year grace period for everyone to pull stuff off they don't want to be a part of this bright new open era, then we just scrap everything related to intellectual property, copyright and similar stupid stuff, and slap UBI on top of all of it for good measure.

	▲	chme 23 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		I'd prefer to stay within the [hacker ethics](https://www.ccc.de/en/hackerethics), and protect private data. For non-private/personal data, sure. But individual people need their privacy protected.
	▲	28 minutes ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		[deleted]

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ux266478 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You could sidestep it by running non-permissibly licensed training data that you purchased through an LLM. Legal attitude so far seems to be that this is transformative as long as it's not 1:1. The question on whether or not the end result is copyrightable of course remains controversial and inconsistent, but that question is also fairly irrelevent. You don't get more libre than public domain.

That's a fair amount of computational and labor overhead mind you, as you'll need to verify and prune the quality of your mountain of synthetic data, but certainly possible.

Though this assumes the legal system is a rational actor playing by the set of rules it claims to. In fact, I highly suspect you could get very unlucky and get an unfavorable ruling against you, because you stepped on a big pile of money's toes in the process of doing this.

	▲	alightsoul an hour ago \| parent [-]
		It can also be used to sidestep copyright like this forum, books and most websites even if the data was not purchased but is a website or book. Are LLMs what we need to make all data public domain? This way it could be used for that purpose

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jjordan an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Hear me out.

Decentralized unstoppable storage, combined with decentralized unstoppable training, sorta like SETI for AI training. The seed of this tech already exists with IPFS and others like it.

We know (some? all?) of the big labs have skirted copyright laws at one point or another. Truly open models would just build on what is publicly available.

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an hour ago | parent | next [-]

[deleted]

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alightsoul an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Crypto bros took the idea with some blockchain shit and no one takes it seriously anymore so it died

	▲	embedding-shape 35 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		If the LLM/AI ecosystem starts actually needing some Person-To-Person (or maybe Agent-To-Agent?) payment system because things actually get smart enough to be useful autonomously, they're gonna need some way to send money/currency around. Depending on how banks will react to this need, we might see another return of digital currencies from the current winter.

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ignoramous an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

UAE's IFM / LLM360 MO is indeed "fully open source" LLMs: https://www.llm360.ai/reports/LLM360-Towards-Fully-Transpare...

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echelon 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Eventually we'll just construct 100% synthetic training data that can reliably reproduce pretrains and fine tunes.

The first broadly useful fully open source models will do this.

We already have open data / open code / open weights for some domain-specific cases, such as audio models trained on large open datasets, eg. Tacotron / LJSpeech from waaay back in the day, though that is certainly not SOTA anymore.

Distillation could possibly be considered an early case of this as raw AI outputs are themselves not copyrightable unless humans enrich, filter, or transform them. Granted, that does not handle the cases where the outputs are sufficiently similar to copyrighted original works.

	▲	chaosharmonic an hour ago \| parent \| next [-]
		But how much of that synthetic data still ultimately derives from non-open sources? You'd still have to ask what a clean room implementation ultimately is, depending on how granular or aggressive a large publisher wanted to get about it. That said, I don't necessarily disagree with you. Talkie[1] presents an interesting case for it being at least possible to do this entirely on public domain material. But even that used Claude somewhere in the course of its training pipeline (it's listed as a contributor on their GitHub), so again, how granular you want to get with that is still a question. [1] https://talkie-lm.com/chat
	▲	waffleiron 2 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Where does that synthetic data come from? Magically just started existing?