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redox99 a day ago

It's always been clear to me that Cursor's business model of reselling others' APIs had its days numbered. Not necessarily because the providers would pull the plug, but because you wouldn't be able to compete with subsidized plans.

Cursor is already kind of useless for third party models unless you're willing to spend thousands of dollars. It's only worth it if you're going to use mostly grok/composer.

raincole a day ago | parent | next [-]

I've never seen a product blow another product out of the water so hard as Claude Code did to Cursor.

fweimer a day ago | parent | next [-]

The TUI version of Claude Code just isn't very good, though. The default keybindings do not work in the majority of terminals (because they generate the same byte sequences for key sequences assigned to different commands). Editing large prompts is rather painful because there doesn't seem to be in-prompt search commands. There is no source code browser, so source code references cannot checked by the users without a separate tool. Diffs cannot be copied directly because they are indented by spaces (even though some tools strip indentation from patches, it's still ugly). Switching between conversations is somewhat discouraged by the interface, which makes it harder to keep the context clean.

I think it's possible to have a better TUI, with something that isn't modeled after a shell prompt. Apparently, recent updates move in that direction. The GUI version of Claude Code seems to be coming to Linux, too.

sevenseacat 5 hours ago | parent [-]

The Claude Code TUI is downright awful, and hostile.

jtwaleson a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The tide is turning though. I was using the old non agent view in cursor every day for about a year when I built my startup with it. Then Claude Code blew it out of the water. But since two month or so I much prefer Codex and Cursor with the agent view.

However, what I see cooking at Cursor is way more promising than the others. Things like full system understanding, their own forge, multi-repo support. I'd put them as way more visionary in the Gartner magic Quadrant ;)

kian a day ago | parent [-]

what do you mean by 'full system understanding', here? And don't you think that claude and openai are using their own forge as well?

jtwaleson a day ago | parent | next [-]

Ingesting the whole codebase in their cloud and then maintaining indexes of where everything lives and what already exists. Not sure if that's where they are going but that's what I feel looking at some of the beta functionality and announcements.

For the forges, what the sibling said.

satvikpendem 16 hours ago | parent [-]

They don't index code bases anymore.

oblio a day ago | parent | prev [-]

What forges are we talking about here? None of them have Github competitors.

anon35 a day ago | parent [-]

https://cursor.com/origin

therealdrag0 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I saw that happen culturally. But never saw that much different in performance. And I really dislike terminal development. And their desktop app is really buggy.

946789987649 a day ago | parent | next [-]

Out of interest when did you last use the desktop app? I am a huge daily user of it and apart from very minimal bugs, it works perfectly for me. Wasn't always the case, so they've definitely made improvements

therealdrag0 19 hours ago | parent [-]

Maybe 3 months ago?

j0ej0ej0e a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Given you can use the same models on both, you're right about performance. However I've found the cross-session context and memory in claude code much more helpful which can lead to better outcomes faster.

Additionally helpful where 2 apps/repos might require running at the same time, e.g. headless web apps, or, for plugin development where the plugin might be a dedicated repo but needs to run in another app to observe changes and make it re-test itself.

I also switched from terminal to the app not that long ago, I don't find it buggy, it has access to a browser which is really helpful.

ifwinterco a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Claude code is a decent harness but then you have to use Anthropic models, which are good but no longer the best bang for the buck.

In particular Haiku 4.5 is rubbish, Anthropic don’t have anything in the cheap/fast part of the market.

For people fortunate enough to still be on a subscription instead of per-token billing this is less relevant, but their time will come.

The cursor model is quite nice because it allows you to switch between cheap and expensive models for different tasks

SyneRyder a day ago | parent | next [-]

> Claude code is a decent harness but then you have to use Anthropic models...

Claude Code works with models from other providers too. Anthropic supports this. You can configure some Claude Code environment variables to switch: eg changing ANTHROPIC_DEFAULT_HAIKU_MODEL to point to GLM Flash or Luna, setting ANTHROPIC_BASE_URL to point to api.z.ai, and making ANTHROPIC_AUTH_TOKEN the API key for your alternative provider instead.

Some instructions here:

https://docs.z.ai/scenario-example/develop-tools/claude

That said, I've not actually tried this myself, opting to build my own harness instead. And you don't know what information Claude Code might be sending back to Anthropic about how you use competing models and which models you use. I don't know for sure that they do this, but after hearing about how they used steganography in the date of harness system prompts to identify the user's location, I don't entirely trust Claude Code anymore.

pkulak a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think the point is that CC was the first general use, terminal based harness. I think. Now you can use PI, or OpenCode, or whatever, and use any model you like.

Now, I’m no expert, because I was late to the game and have only ever used Pi. But I guess Cursor is some product that’s tied to your IDE? If so, then yeah. That’s just too restrictive. I still love my IDE, but I don’t want it to be my harness too.

jeeeb a day ago | parent | next [-]

Aider (and probably others) came well before CC.

adastra22 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Claude Code was very late to the party.

Eueudhsbsj32 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

> Claude code is a decent harness but then you have to use Anthropic models

Why do you say that? I've used Claude Code with DeepSeek via OpenRouter just fine.

girvo a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Cursor has a surprising amount of inertia, though, at least where I work.

disgruntledphd2 a day ago | parent [-]

I've recently moved to a company that uses Cursor, and I'm actually quite fond of it.

I basically never use the editor but the fact that there's a review UI for all the agent work is incredibly helpful.

For me, that makes the models much more usable. I've also been using GPT models a lot, as they're cheaper and less vomit inducing than Claudes text, so this is definitely bad news for me.

mirzap a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why do people keep insisting that subscription plans are subsidized? They are not. API prices are outrageous, designed to milk enterprise users. They probably have an 80-90% profit margin on subscription plans.

Inference is cheap; Dax once said on a podcast that Opencode has a close to 90% profit margin on the openweight models it provides inference for (at 10x cheaper pricing). Those models are close in size and spec to models from large labs.

sunaurus a day ago | parent | next [-]

To provide inference, Anthropic and OpenAI need to also constantly spend resources on training new models.

If either one of them stops doing that, customers will stop using them, because other models will become better.

In other words, there is no point in talking about inference cost in isolation.

citrin_ru a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

OpenAI leaked financial data (2025) suggests this - it has $5.7 billion for marketing which 44% of revenue. It’s hard to explain where these billions go other than into subsidised subscription plans and a free tier.

redox99 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Because using chinese models on OpenRouter is way more expensive than the equivalent codex sub, unless you use something clearly inferior like deepseek flash.

owebmaster a day ago | parent | prev [-]

> Inference is cheap;

When they outsource training to China they will be so profitable!

aspirin a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Enterprise customers are not getting the subsidized subscriptions so for them the point is moot.

oh_no 21 hours ago | parent [-]

cursor adds $0.25/M to your token bill for 3rd party services. sounds small but it's insanely big on cached inputs, which are an insanely high % of use

itake a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What about openrouter though?

DustinBrett a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Lot of people will to spend that much. Works quite well, very useful.

dancemethis a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I will slightly disagree on a small slice: Their harness/instruction makes Opus/Fable so much better to work with.

Honestly, _this_ was their moat more than Composer to me.

mbesto a day ago | parent | next [-]

If the Opus/Fable harness is superior and it's written using Opus/Fable then it will cease to be a moat. Otherwise the premise for coding using LLMs is essentially untrue.

re-thc a day ago | parent [-]

> Otherwise the premise for coding using LLMs is essentially untrue.

Why? Written by does not mean designed by etc. There's a lot more to it.

dakolli a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Couldn't you just download cursor, not even pay for any account and hook up an Anthropic api key and get that functionality?

I dont know how cursor works. Everytime ive tried to use, its super buggy and has memory leaks that make my very quite PC sound like a jet engine.

natdempk a day ago | parent | next [-]

Cursor charges the “Cursor Token Rate” for BYOK https://cursor.com/docs/models-and-pricing#cursor-token-rate

sourcecodeplz a day ago | parent | next [-]

No. Its is not for bring your own key.

It is for 3rd party models (which you get double the amount of your sub price as usage).

Of course they wont charge you extra for BYOK. how would they???

ch_sm a day ago | parent [-]

To be fair, that is what it says on their website.

dakolli a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Who are the peoole using this and why is it worth 60b lol

raincole a day ago | parent | prev [-]

You can just pirate Adobe's software and their marketcap is 115.88B.

alansaber a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Token reselling stops working when providers literally won't work with you

prophesi a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Honestly, Cursor's AI harness worked best with the Anthropic models. Could just be my bias though. Evaluating frontier LLM's all seem to be by vibes. I think the industry is understanding it's both the harness and the model that makes the difference; can't half ass either, and some harnesses do better with different models. I'm good to leave this "career." Senior software engineers, make your bag.

echelon a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Alternate take: open source models and model routers are the real bang for your buck. Subsidized plan or not.

redox99 18 hours ago | parent [-]

Codex sub is way cheaper than equally strong models on openrouter.

dbbk a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Well yeah, hence why they started making their own

qaq a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Use cursor cli for grok pretty happy with it.

xtracto a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I just told my boss to cancel my cursor subscription. My flow is basically Claude/opencode + kyde/vscode for por changes review

Shit, for most things, ive got a dev agent that reads change requests from a GDoc and communicates through email with me. I can develop in my mobile

nab a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Agreed. Wrapping token spend is great for pumping your revenue numbers (congrats to them on $60B!), but doesn’t seem sustainable over the long term.

Big reason we built https://boxes.dev around the model harnesses (Codex + Claude Code), so you can bring your own subscriptions.

repeekad a day ago | parent [-]

Surely the days of being able to “bring your own subscription” to a third party platform are also numbered?

Eridrus a day ago | parent | next [-]

On one hand, yes, it doesn't make sense to give out subsidized tokens forever.

On the other hand, subscriptions create lock-in in a way that API pricing doesn't.

I think a more likely end is that subscription value decreases over time because API pricing gets more reasonable, but subscriptions stay because they are a good way of getting money out of people consistently.

landl0rd a day ago | parent [-]

Right, subscriptions are not only cheaper because they "create lock-in". They also let you do things like forecast demand and plan your capacity for it, borrow against it sometimes if you need to, and keep somewhat less around because your cashflows are predictable. It is also valuable because it keeps customers around but that's by no means the only reason recurring revenue gets a higher multiple.

This is why "subsidized tokens" is possibly a misnomer. Money at lower variance is worth more than the same money at higher variance. Not "subsidy" so much as reducing risk and passing some of that to a consumer.

nab a day ago | parent | prev [-]

I’m not so sure… Claude backtracked on this when they tried it

DANmode a day ago | parent [-]

They played pigeon on discless videogame consoles a time or two, too.

How long have you been in tech, outta curiosity?

Edit: great answer.

Dylan16807 a day ago | parent [-]

> Edit: great answer.

What do you mean by that? If you're being sassy about a downvote then I'll remind you that when you reply to a comment, that person can't downvote your reply. Also this is an account with barely any comments or points, I'm pretty sure they can't downvote at all.

DANmode 20 hours ago | parent [-]

I’ll remind the reader if they downvote without mentioning why, there’s no opinion really being conveyed.

Just a stub of a conversation.

I don’t care about the points. Just the chat, which seems finished.

Dylan16807 16 hours ago | parent [-]

Sure, no opinion really being conveyed.

But it didn't come from the person you were talking to, so editing on a sarcastic "great answer" doesn't really work.

The person you were talking to just hadn't responded within the first hour. They still might.