Remix.run Logo
bsimpson a day ago

Have they?

I know a lot of my peers went to college for free with the Millennium Scholarship.

But so many young people vape now that it's becoming cool to smoke analog cigarettes. I barely knew anyone who smoked 10-20y ago. Many people that age now do.

Melatonic a day ago | parent | next [-]

Maybe you know different young people now ?

I saw way more smoking 10-20 years ago. All have quit now.

I see a good amount vape but rarely see cigarettes these days

dprkh a day ago | parent [-]

I can't go outside in Toronto without having to smell cigarettes/cannabis.

temporallobe a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Analog cigarettes! I love how “analog” has become synonymous with everything more manual, natural, even or better.

californical a day ago | parent | next [-]

My favorite is the “acoustic bike” instead of electric bike (the joke comes from guitars, I think)

account42 17 hours ago | parent [-]

I'll start calling normal chairs acoustic chairs now to stretch this joke even further.

AlecSchueler a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

ICCs? Internal combustion cigarettes

dlandis a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Alternative Meanings (Noun)Comparable Thing: Something similar or comparable to another thing (also spelled analogue).

SoftTalker a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Smoking tobacco is something people have done for centuries. Pretty unlikely that we'd eliminate it in a few decades.

RicardoLuis0 a day ago | parent | next [-]

smoking tobacco is bad, but smoking cigarettes is much, much worse because of all the extra shit that's added in to make them even more addictive (and more carcinogenic) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_additives_in_cigarette...

rwyinuse a day ago | parent [-]

If you inhale the smoke, it's quite irrelevant whether smoking an industrial cigarette, pipe or a hand-crafted cigar without additives. You'll probably get lung cancer anyway if you continue it long enough. Smoke is always carcinogenic.

I don't really get the point when there are many ways of getting nicotine without the smoke.

compass_copium a day ago | parent | next [-]

You're not wrong about smoke always being bad--there's a reason American Spirits have to have a disclaimer about "additive-free" not meaning healthier. Tobacco takes up alpha emitters from the soil and leaves them in your body--never good.

Pipe and cigar smokers are much less likely to smoke a pack's worth of tobacco a day. You also don't inhale them into your lungs, you hold the smoke in your mouth.

Smoking cigarettes is less about getting nicotine and more about having something to do when you are stressed etc.

4petesake 21 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Well, I suppose less radiation could be one of the advantages of a crack habit

wyre a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Fun fact: the stress that smoking cigarettes relieves is only the stress caused by the addiction/relapse from nicotine. Surely, there might be some placebo effects going on, but nicotine is not a stress relieving chemical.

So really it is just about getting nicotine, but over time the ritual around the addiction adds to the addiction.

compass_copium a day ago | parent [-]

True, but I am vaguely aware of people taking like Zyn for performance enhancement reasons, and I don't think anyone starts smoking like that.

wyre a day ago | parent [-]

Zyn is freebase nicotine which does show some signs of being performance enhancing; mostly around focus. There are a lot of people with unmedicated ADHD self-medicating with Zyn, or vapes, or smoking due to the this.

SoftTalker a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't smoke, but when I've talked to smokers a lot of it is about the ritual. Filling the pipe, cutting and smelling the cigar, or removing the cigarette from the pack, tapping it, lighting it up, the taste and smell of the smoke, it's all part of it not just the nicotine.

d1sxeyes a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That’s not true. The lifetime risk of a smoker getting lung cancer is about 10-20%, not “probably” (somewhere between 15 and 30 times higher risk than a non-smoker).

In fact, only about half of smokers die prematurely from their smoking.

I mean, I’m not saying start smoking, but also let’s at least have accurate facts.

shakna 15 hours ago | parent [-]

> By age 80y, an estimated 48.3% of current-smokers (41.1% never-smokers) will develop cancer, and 14% will develop lung cancer [0]

"The lifetime risk of a smoker getting lung cancer is about 10-20%".

Yup. That's probably true. It is also incredibly misleading, because that isn't the only cancer you are at risk from. So... I wouldn't call what you just said, an accurate fact.

[0] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ijc.33685

d1sxeyes 8 hours ago | parent [-]

OP said: “You'll probably get lung cancer anyway if you continue it long enough”.

That’s not true, and is why I focused on lung cancer. Don’t forget that smokers don’t just die of cancer, so even if we take your source, we still don’t have the proper picture.

That’s why I also added the point that about half of smokers die prematurely due to their smoking, because I was not planning to exhaustively list every possible cause of death which could be caused by smoking.

jimbob45 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

It’s true and smoking marijuana is arguably as harmful as cigarettes but the pro-weed crowd throws a fit any time anyone points that out.

a day ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
hoppp a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Europeans started smoking tobacco in 1492 and it spread super fast.

It probably can't be eliminated completely, but if they slowly make it illegal for young people to start the habit it can be reduced

AlecSchueler a day ago | parent | prev [-]

We've been harming children for even longer

iso1631 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In England, in 2000 25% of 15 year olds regularly smoked, by 2023 it was 2.5%

For the 11-15 group as a whole it dropped from 11% to 1.2%

Vaping in that 11-15 group was 5% in 2023

So combined smoking and vaping in young people halved from 11% in 2000 to 6% in 2023, almost all of which is vaping

https://ash.org.uk/uploads/Youth-Smoking-Fact-Sheet.pdf

https://ash.org.uk/resources/view/use-of-e-cigarettes-among-...

loeg a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Vaping is distinctly less harmful than smoking.

shakna a day ago | parent | next [-]

We don't actually know that yet. The main studies are still ongoing, because this tends to be the kind of thing you measure over decades, and we haven't had those yet.

Does it increase the risk of Alzheimers? Does it riddle your brain with cancer at a later stage?

We don't know.

We do know that it is short-term less harmful, than something where most of the concerns are long-term.

loeg 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Smoking's harms are observable in the short term! You don't need long-term longitudinal studies to show smoking is bad. And we have known mechanisms for that harm that relate to combustion. We know mechanically that vapes are not combusting plant material, and we also don't see the same kinds of obvious harms in the short term. It takes willful blindness to the ills of smoking to suggest that vaping might be as harmful or more harmful than smoking.

shakna 4 hours ago | parent [-]

It takes "wilful blindness" to suggest vaping can be understood completely today.

We already know there are unexpected side-effects. Like kids starting to go blind, when they start young.

I didn't use Alzheimer's as a random example above. There is a known correlation.

So... Maybe it isn't combusting plant material. But it is probably causing brain damage in some form or another - and that is precisely the kind of symptom that requires a longitudinal study to understand the impact!

grvdrm a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I suspect (anecdote) vaping is just as bad if not worse. People vape EVERYWHERE. Almost any place you can't smoke, people still vape. So - that it happens that way makes me think the total exposure is a lurking problem.

HPMOR a day ago | parent | prev [-]

I actually do not know if this is true.

hoppp a day ago | parent [-]

Vaping is not healthy but there is a lot less material inhaled. No fine particles which do real damage.

So vaping is still unhealthy but less than smoking plant matters.

nobody9999 a day ago | parent [-]

>Vaping is not healthy but there is a lot less material inhaled. No fine particles which do real damage.

Propylene glycol covers the alvoelae and over time (~15-20 years) blocks uptake of oxygen, causing respiratory failure and a slow, painful death.

Vegetable glycerine coats the lungs and over time (~10-25 years) blocks fluid from draining out of the lungs, causing congestive heart failure/pulmonary edema. Which ends up causing one to drown in their own bodily fluids and a slow, painful death.

If you disagree, please cite any long term studies that disprove the above. Thanks!

hoppp 14 hours ago | parent [-]

I do not disagree, but can you cite the studies proving this?

Also proof that people did die from respiratory failure due to propylene glycol inhaling?

You shouldn't ask for disprove studies if you don't provide proof studies.

nobody9999 13 hours ago | parent [-]

>You shouldn't ask for disprove studies if you don't provide proof studies.

My point was that we don't know what the long-term effects of vaping are. Because there hasn't been time for the longitudinal studies that will tell us what those effects are.

I requested studies refuting those claims because I know they don't exist. I also know that studies confirming such claims don't exist either.

Making the statement that "...vaping is still unhealthy but less than smoking plant matters" is disingenuous because we have no idea what long-term (note that qualification) effects vaping does or does not have.

It might be that vaping increases human lifespan by 80%. Or it might be that vaping decreases lifespan by 25%. Or it might be that vaping either causes or prevents dementia. We just don't know. It may be that none of those things apply. Who knows? Not me. And not you or anyone else. Yet.

Because vaping hasn't been widely used for long enough to make claims about its long-term effects.

My claims are just as valid as yours ("...vaping is still unhealthy but less than smoking plant matters").

That was my point. My apologies for expecting you to make the conceptual leap and understand the above by making similarly unsupported claims as the one you made. I guess that wasn't the best way to do so. I'll try to do better in the future.

I hope I've cleared up your confusion.

hoppp 9 hours ago | parent [-]

Im not confused. A lot of the context you are inferring is just in your mind.

It's funny to see someone invent a narrative then have a conversation with himself while trying to gaslight another person that they invented the narrative.

esseph a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I barely knew anyone who smoked 10-20y ago

What country?

In a lot of the US, smoking sections still existed in restaurants then.

Just checked my home town, some bans were enacted in 2014 and existing restaurants and bars are still grandfathered in!

a day ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]