| ▲ | dannyw 5 hours ago |
| The DRAM market is cyclical. I don’t think anyone truly knows when, but it will happen. Fab capacity is being bought online; there’s just lead time. Noticeably greater intelligence is being achieved at the same number of parameters (see: Qwen3.8). I think the future will be bright, it might be a matter of time. And for tinkers, a used Epyc + DDR4 server can be great fun and epic value. |
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| ▲ | brookst 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| 100%. We're probably on the cusp of over-capacity, a glut, cheap RAM, bankruptcies, and shortages. |
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| ▲ | unsupp0rted 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The memory companies report that they're sold out through 2027... so it might be a while | | |
| ▲ | kstenerud 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | That's only if the AI companies continue their build outs. How many people actually use fable over opus? How far are we up the diminishing returns curve, and will their customers even care? | | |
| ▲ | tshaddox an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | The stock market crash caused by AI companies halting their planned build outs may in practice cause RAM to remain unaffordable. | |
| ▲ | agentcoops 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I don’t think the effects on the hardware market of open weight models triumphing has been reflected upon enough. It’s not clear that it will be less impactful if every enterprise decides to build for predominantly on-premise inference. In fact, before the question is ultimately decided, we’re probably heading towards a few years where hobbyists, enterprises and ‘hyper scalers’ are all competing for certain parts in common. Ram booked through 2027 sounds about right. | | |
| ▲ | Foobar8568 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Companies are avoid risks, and at this stage, sometimes, I feel that all cloud providers are just buying RAM that they would have bought anyway. Now it's ensure that no company will be willing to pay x digits just for cards. One of my clients is stuck in "we are doing things on premise but we are too cheap to spend a few 100k in cards but we don't want to go on clouds. |
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| ▲ | rxyz an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Fable would have a much bigger userbase if Anthropic didn’t remove a zero data retention option because muh safeguards |
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| ▲ | giantrobot an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | I for one can't wait. Current prices are absolutely insane. However a problem exists with scalper bots. They're going to fight tooth and nail to keep prices artificially high even when supply increases. Same with the hyperscalers blowing "free money" at eating supply as a strategic position against smaller competitors. |
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| ▲ | SSLy 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Looks like I'll be sporting my 5800X3D + DDR4 + 9070 XT gaming box for a little while. Too bad the CPU's ST is slower than my MB Air m4. |
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| ▲ | pdpi 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I built a new PC about two years ago, and I probably got it at the last possible opportunity for a while. CPU and motherboard have come down by maybe £100 in between the two of them, but a 7900 xtx (or any other 24GB GPU) for under £1,000 now seems like a bargain, and £180 for 64GB of DDR5 makes me feel like an old man talking about the halcyon days. | | |
| ▲ | devmor 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I built my current PC the day that the AM5 platform released, for about $6k not including the 3090 I moved over from the previous rig. If I sold just the two sticks of RAM in it right now, it’d pay for nearly half of the total cost. | | |
| ▲ | raegis 2 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I bought a motherboard from Newegg in late 2024. It came with 16GB of RAM as a free "gift". The same RAM goes for $534 on Newegg today. It was $437 in January. Prices are still creeping up for this "throwaway" memory. I still have it, but never installed it because I only use ECC memory in my desktops. I'm saving it for a future Desktop in case memory prices never fall again. |
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| ▲ | Lwerewolf 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Welcome to the club. If you're _really_ competitive in cs2, I'd swap out to a 9800x3d setup, but it's still a maybe. Very little reason to upgrade right now other than to run LLMs. | | |
| ▲ | what_hn 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It will never make sense to me to run Llms locally unless I had 50k. I don't even think that would compete with price perf of a remote llm and getting business done. And that's completely ignoring that sol/fable level is not local | |
| ▲ | SSLy 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yeah, instead I have unsubbed from WoW this week. The atrocious state of the game's code and scripting is unbearable. |
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| ▲ | cogman10 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'm expecting it to somewhat collapse. I don't know if it'll go back to pre bubble prices (here's to hoping), but I do expect a pretty sharp decline around 2030... probably not before then. Basically everyone that makes memory is building new fabs, meanwhile I'm not sure how much longer AI datacenter demand for ram will last. I think the decrease in AI ram demand and the new fabs will likely coincide leading to a collapse in pricing. That is, of course, assuming the memory manufacturers don't pull their favorite trick and collude. |
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| ▲ | FeepingCreature 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | If there's a decrease in AI ram demand, it will not be because the models get better. Models getting better will increase RAM demand, because it grows the part of the economy that models are useful for. Classic Jevon's Paradox. | | |
| ▲ | cogman10 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm expecting the drop for a couple of reasons. For 1, AI datacenter builders have said that they have more equipment than they have places to put them. Leaving a ton of hardware shelved while you wait for datacenters to build out is bad business to say the least. For 2, I think we are nearing saturation for the usefulness of AI. I certainly could be wrong, but I don't really foresee there to be a bunch of new exciting usages of AI that will ultimately justify the continued buildout. | |
| ▲ | HDThoreaun 19 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yes, but a right now a lot of the RAM buy is for demand that doesnt exist yet. Big tech is projecting AI demand and making sure they have enough compute to fulfill that, so AI demand would have to increase even more than they expect, otherwise theyll build their datacenters and then slow down the amount they buy. |
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| ▲ | ciupicri 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If it will happen in 100 years it will practically never happen (for us). Even 25 years would be a lot, it's half of a career. Could you provide more details about the Epyc + DDR4 server? |
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| ▲ | bluGill 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Cycles tend to be 5-10 years long not 25. Without knowing anything else I would expect a fab you seriously start planning today will be at full capacity in about 5 years. Nobody serious likes delays - in particular the banks don't like loaning money that won't at least start paying off. They know it takes some time to design a building - but factories typically are standard buildings so once you know about the size you can get it done fast - I expect 1 year to have the building done is the worst case (and it can be done in 3 months possibly if your project management is good - after interest this is cheaper than the 1 year). It takes time to build and install the specialized machines that go inside - this is the largest problem, but you typically order them first and then plan the building around the needed space and when they will arrive. Then you need 6 months to setup the inside of the building. From there it is just ramp up time. The above is a standard project management problem. We do this for lots of industry all the time. There is every reason to think you can get a new factory running in 5 years. Note that I said 1 factory above. Some of the special machines we don't have the ability to make them fast enough to do 2 (I don't know the real number!) new factories in 5 years. Existing factories are using most of the special machine capacity to replace machines that wore out on the way - this can be corrected as well, but it adds another year and the expenses are much larger. Realistically though 1 new factory is likely enough. |
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| ▲ | vonneumannstan 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If you don't understand that the AI driven memory boom has totally broken the cycle you are going to lose a lot of money. There is infinite demand for Intelligence and that translates directly to chips. |
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| ▲ | mathisfun123 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > The DRAM market is cyclical. ... > I don’t think anyone truly knows when, but it will happen. Do you know what cyclical means ... ? |