Was seriously considering getting a Framework to replace my aging ASUS. Upgrade- and repair-ability were my main motivations.

But now I'm reconsidering. Not standing behind their own BIOS update is pretty horrible.

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alnwlsn 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I like my framework, but I do wonder if the repairability angle is overstated if you're already used to fixing normal laptops. Yes, Framework's parts are easier to find, and the laptops are easier to open, but it's not like doing any of the typical repairs - keyboard, screen, touchpad, battery - are impossibly difficult on those other guys.

Used thinkpads and the glut of EBay parts for them reach about 85% of what Framework does for me, and at half the price. But it's a different experience.

Framework does seem like better build quality than most laptops I've had, but I'm used to cheap crappy ones.

On the other hand, you do seem to find more cases of multiple people doing things like the linked bios update procedure on framework.

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zvmaz 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I had a very different experience with the Framework team. The battery died (within the warranty period), I reached out to them, they asked some questions, then sent me a brand new one.

Very satisfied with my Framework laptop and the customer support. I can't imagine buying another laptop.

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sokoloff 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Replacing a battery that failed under warranty should be a baseline expectation.

Not "terrible" obviously, but a slight negative that the battery failed under warranty and a slight positive that they honored their published warranty.

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throwaway2037 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This reply seems like a non-sequitor and does not respond to GPs concern. How would you feel if a BIOS update outside of warranty bricked your motherboard? I am sure you would not say the same.

	▲	zvmaz 14 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		I was responding to the person casting doubts on whether he/she should buy a Framework laptop by providing my own experience as a very happy customer. I still think he/she should go for a Framework. As for BIOS updates outside warranty, I think it's always been risky for all brands. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't think "non-sequitor" applies here.

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spacemanspiff01 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I had good experience within warranty period, but there was still some funky-ness with a non-posting board... I do sometimes wonder if it was a bios corruption - It died after running the battery 100% to zero...

That being said, I think the particular bios-chip is a design flaw that they should communicate about and fix for future boards... Probably a teething issue thing, but they should fix it. Either a usable replaceable chip so they can just send out a fix, or the fallback bios chip....

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yellowapple 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Any other laptop is going to have the same risk of a failed BIOS flash, and will likely require the same degree of manual intervention to fix. That the replacement process entails swapping (and potentially upgrading, as I did in this exact situation with my FW16) just the motherboard instead of the entire laptop is a strict improvement.

That said, I agree with the article that a company like Framework with an ostensible mission of maximal repairability can and should at minimum provide header pins to reflash the firmware instead of requiring a bunch of adapters. Ideal would be an internal USB-C port that presents the flashed firmware as a file on a FAT filesystem that you can copy to backup or overwrite to restore/upgrade, like what the Raspberry Pi Pico does. Either approach would entail pennies of added cost per board, at most; it wouldn't take very many prevented warranty claims for that investment to pay off.

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quantum5 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> Any other laptop is going to have the same risk of a failed BIOS flash, and will likely require the same degree of manual intervention to fix.

What I found from my research while writing the post is that both Dell and HP have BIOS recovery options without having to open the laptop at all, so that's not quite true. I think there's more Framework could have done here to make this a much less painful experience.

	▲	yellowapple an hour ago \| parent [-]
		From what I can tell, HP's non-invasive BIOS recovery options are very model-dependent, and even models which do allegedly support recovery reportedly refuse to boot into recovery mode for some folks. But yes, Dell is the outlier that has me saying “likely” instead of “definitely” above; they've had orders of magnitude more time and money than Framework has to throw at BIOS development, and it shows. I agree with you that Framework should be making a priority of getting their BIOSes to that level; I'm also willing to extend them some grace given the company's age and resources.