For the elders here, what are the actual ways to not live under the rule of an industrial clock?

I’m not talking about starting your own company get rich quick scheme or moving into the woods (unless..), but really, I don’t see many ways about it. You could move somewhere rural, lower expenses, but then you are socially isolated to an extent. So, move to where people are, oh but then the only way to support the lifestyle is a standard job with security. Having a family is a whole different requirement almost making it “irresponsible” to not have stable income, hence time restrictions. Then again there seem to be a small population of explorers who live radically different lives or simply try to enjoy their work or switch jobs. Really struggling with this question.

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wahern 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You'd have to go back nearly 2000 years, at the very least, to find a time when civilizations weren't living under the tyranny of time keeping devices. Here's a poem from 195AD Rome satirizing the tyranny of the sun dial: https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/time/hacked-days

Leaving civilization is probably your only option. Other than joining a handful of remote tribes, or living as a recluse, I don't think there's anyway to completely shield oneself from the tyranny.

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toasty228 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> You could move somewhere rural, lower expenses, but then you are socially isolated to an extent.

I got more social interactions the first week I moved to my house built in the middle of nowhere eastern europe than in my 10 years in a western EU capital. Small communities are much more alive than gigantic ones. You do lose some convenience, but it's not as bad is it used to be, for exemple there is a 24/7 automated supermarket 10min from my middle of nowhere village, 5g everywhere, etc.

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an hour ago | parent | next [-]

[deleted]

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Gecko4072 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Interesting. Do you feel constrained at all? That does sound nice and much more peaceful. I think it’s hard to imagine the change when many have been sold the story of moving to the big city becoming successful, living an exciting life in your 20s, 30s.

	▲	toasty228 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		It really depends on what you want from life. If you value gadgets, convenience, going for an impromptu beer with friends on a thursday evening then it's a net negative. If you value peace, space, slowing down, nature then it's very nice. Less pollution, less noise, etc. I couldn't afford to buy a two bedrooms flat where I lived, now I own a 3 floor house, a garden big enough to feed my family and neighbours during peak season, life is good, can't complain

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kergonath an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> Small communities are much more alive than gigantic ones.

My experience is that after a point it gets annoying, and then oppressive. The proximity in smaller communities can help when everything is right. Neighbours can check on you, bring your kids to school, this sort of things. But at some point personal issues arise, and then it’s impossible to get out of them. That’s how you end up with family feuds over centuries because at some point someone did not like someone else.

Also, it’s nice if you correspond to what the community expects. If you don’t and you don’t build your own niche very quickly you get typecast and then outcast. Humans can be vile and petty, even in small communities. It gets particularly hairy if your bully is somewhat popular locally. Ask me how I know.

Anyway, I much prefer larger communities. I can still make friends if I want to, and if we have a fight it’s not the end of the village.

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markvdb 17 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Have a look at ERE. Don't get fooled by the snake oil sounding url. I ignored it for years because of that, but it's a sound framework to help you answer the question you are asking.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Lund_Fisker

https://earlyretirementextreme.com/

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letmetweakit an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It’s called society and it’s really hard to fight against. I’d suggest you look for a way to fit in that suits you.

	▲	TheSkyHasEyes an hour ago \| parent [-]
		Old guy checking in. This is the best reply I could find that matches my view. You might not escape but you can breathe better air if you try. Do you need a big house, do you need a shiny new vehicle, do you need to eat at restaurants twice a week? Life can be more your way if you have more money to make it your way.

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lukan 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"Really struggling with this question."

Many do, but there are also many unique solutions. Work part time. Home office. Live rural, but close to a railwail station that brings you to the city quickly. Limit your expenses, check what you really need. Do freelancing, where you often can decide when you will do the work, ..

	▲	2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		[deleted]

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snovymgodym 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Society and your past decisions will put you on rails. You can get off them, but there will be sacrifices.

I will always gladly post this. Not because I think it's good advice or because I think Ran is a person to emulate, but because I think it encourages one to think differently about life, wants, needs, and responsibilities.

https://ranprieur.com/essays/dropout.html

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PowerElectronix an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sadly, as soon as you can conjure the concept of time and schedules, you will yourself end up under one, either self-imposed or imposed by others.

It will creep slowly on you and before you realize you will be late to do the laundry or whatnot.

Having a schedule and making so many things predictable and optimizable is just too advantageous to just not do it.

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thwarted 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Aren't these effectively the same thing? In order to get the benefits of living/working as a group/in a society, there needs to be common elements; aggregating by location/space and by time go hand in hand. If the farmers' market is in the park on Sundays, you can hardly expect to show up at a different time or place and still participate. Regularity, in time or place, is the most common and scalable way to coordinate. The way to avoid that is to remove the need to coordinate, but then, by definition, you are alone.

	▲	Gecko4072 an hour ago \| parent \| next [-]
		I didn’t consider that. What I maybe meant is feeling owned by time rather than existing in it. In the past time wasn’t even a concept really. You just went about your life, realized you changed and the sun moved, but nothing like we have now with days of the week, constantly knowing the minute of the day, calendars locking us in months ahead of a day arriving, etc. I believe community can definitely thrive without clocks, however I understand your point.
	▲	throwaway27448 an hour ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		In a world with such strong async communication and logistics, surely this is less of a constraint than ever.

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mythrwy 44 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This can be done, and in major cities as well. You get a tent, and some fentanyl and just don't go to work anymore.

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huflungdung 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[dead]

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AtlasBarfed 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You know all that shit you feel compelled to buy? You know that house that's about 2000 to 3,000 square feet more than you need? And all that excess food you eat that turned you into a fat ass? That car you drive that is three feet too long and 15-50k more than you need to spend?

But yes, being anti consumerist, even to a mild extent, is "radical". In particular, alas, to the vast vast vast majority of mates