it could be that coffee acts directly on the endocrine system as they suggest, or coffee allows you to work out longer (or work out at all since you don't want to sit still) which leads to the effects they observed

I'm curious why they don't mention tea actually, are they suggesting it's not the caffeine that's doing it?

granted recent studies showed decaf coffee has some benefits itself, so it could be some of the other compounds present in coffee, but a discussion of this would be useful

Or links between the study and coffee industry

Or possibly one of those who stick to only water.

AmishNews

I've known people with disabling headaches until they hit 200mg+ of caffeine in the AM. They are caffeine addicts.

>you wanna do it every day, even if you get cranky when someone (sometimes you) ruin this ceremony for you

This is addicted behavior; the bar is far lower than most people use the word for.

> Not sure you have to cut back on something that you really enjoy, so much that you wanna do it every day, even if you get cranky when someone (sometimes you) ruin this ceremony for you. Why would you cut back when the biggest negative is spending 10-20EUR a month on some nice coffee you can consume every single morning?

The only thing that I know is that I know nothing but I will like to respectfully present my points

Couldn't the same arguments that you used could be used, for say, phone addiction and so many other under-focused addictions as well.

There is more nuance to it that I'd like to explore:

Is the dependency of anything whether good or bad not something worth discussing more deeply into. Could it perhaps also say just a few things about our society that workers feel so overworked that they have to resort to using coffee in order to tolerate the amount of work?

I don't drink coffee personally, do I get cranky? Of course but I don't attribute that crankiness to my lack of coffee. Life has its ups and downs but suppose a down comes just after you wanted to quit coffee, you might attribute your responses to how you stopped drinking coffee, you would feel like coffee was helping you and now you stopped it and you are missing out on something. You must again use coffee!

My main point is: How much is coffee really helping you and how much is the fear of absence of coffee as if you are losing out on something so precious and that many can't live their life without it when in reality many people live just fine without drinking coffee as well and all the ways our minds folds our thinking into wanting it again. just one more time, trust me bro. Today I had a lot of work from my boss or I feel so stressed, nothing like a cup of coffee. Just one more time.

I feel as if the excuse can work in our minds because at that point, our minds are tired, it just wants to fix itself and we don't think too rationally about it. You might even think what's the harm? but the harms is that the cycle continues and I will try to list some of the harms in the end of the comment from another HN commenter (@bossyTeacher) who puts it better than I can :-)

- High heart rate and blood pressure

- Increased risk of arrhtymia

- Less deep sleep

- Disruption to your cortisol level dynamics

(I have shared some negative effects of it, also if coffee impacts your sleep, one has to wonder that there are people willing to pay thousands of dollars to improve their sleep, the question seems to me how much do you think your deep sleep is worth over the long term?)

As such, I believe that there's more nuance to the whole thing.

To me, my personal opinion is that I don't want my self control resource to focus on the task of coffee consumption and keeping it in check. I sometimes drink soft drinks like diet coke just because I would have some friction (which well online shopping is actually ironically* making it less when I would want the friction to be more actually but still!), I know that with coffee, I might not be able to resist the temptation of having coffee at home and then drinking it a bit too much. It happens to the best of us, It's alright but something worth thinking about.

Self control is like a resource in terms of how precious it is, you have a finite amount of self control (IMO). As such, I would like to just not think about coffee so much in life and live my life :-)

(I think I might prefer less diet coke as well and to get to lemonade and other natural drinks actually, personally I like lemonade as well but even the mere friction of 2 minutes making one has sometimes made me stop as I feel like its a task. I am thinking if I really must, someday I would try to make Lemonade in huge container and just drink from it throughout the day.)

I cut back because I found that I couldn't go a day without it without a massive headache.

Took me 2 weeks to stop craving coffee. And about a month until I started to feel right.

I still have the occasional coffee but don't drink it every day. I like it this way.

I miss it like I missed cigarettes after I quit those.

I constantly hear coffee drinkers say how much they drink with shame and that they should cut back. It's one of the most common things I hear when someone is talking about their coffee consumption.

Personally, I stopped drinking caffeine when I was around 19 after I figured out it was the source of my chronic headaches (from withdrawal). I had to talk my dad out of taking me to a neurologist at one point in high school. My quality of life went up significantly after cutting caffeine and going through the week-long headache.

Coffee (caffeine related products really) from my understanding seems to harshly impact deep sleep.

If you are asking in good faith (which I hope you do because its HN and we are curious people, aren't we!), I recommend looking at r/decaf for seeing people's experience that they are sharing regarding it.

Also upvoting @bossyTeacher comments and re-sharing the good points that they have made:

- High heart rate and blood pressure

- Increased risk of arrhtymia

- Less deep sleep

- Disruption to your cortisol level dynamics

It causes:

- High heart rate and blood pressure

- Increased risk of arrhtymia

- Less deep sleep

- Disruption to your cortisol level dynamics

Whether you consider all of them not "bad" or worth the benefits is up to you. People also consider moderate consumption of alcohol worth its benefits.

Everyone has a different risk profile. Know the risks and choose as you please.

The alcohol industry was successful with it for a while. There was a time when it seemed a new study came out every month about how alcohol, in moderation, was associated with a longer healthier life than abstaining completely. Then all the studies about the antioxidants(?) in wine. My grandma used to have a small glass of wine every night for the health benefits it was supposed to have. These days we’re being told there is no safe level of consumption and any amount is bad, but even that message hasn’t been widely communicated.

Example from 2009: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2009/apr/30/alcohol-life...

Tobacco stated off being marketed as a botanical medicine. We could say similar things about cocaine and other harder drugs as well.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7247455/

Meat mostly got a bad wrap due to its association with fat. Fat got a bad wrap, because the sugar industry paid off researches to point the finger and fat instead of sugar as the cause of heart disease. We’re still paying the price for this one.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074...

There are also the vegans who have made it their life’s mission to try to vilify meat, so that’s kind of the same thing, but from the opposite direction.

These things have happened in other industries. It’s just that many of those were impactful enough that they could only keep up the ruse for so long. Caffeine has a more mild effect, so it’s less likely that it will end up like cocaine or tabacco.

Addiction implies dependence. If you feel unable to be a productive member of society without a psychoactive substance that you must ingest daily, then I have bad news for you.

I cannot tell: Is this sarcasm? Really: That is not healthy to consume so much caffeine per day, unless you are drinking decaf. Depending upon your size of coffee, they are mostly 6-8 fluid ounces, or about 70-90mg of caffeine per "cup".

Here is a quote that I found:

    > For most healthy adults, up to 400 milligrams of caffeine a day—about four 8-ounce cups of brewed coffee or 10 cans of cola—is considered safe and not linked to negative health effects, according to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

Coffee tastes more aggressive than all of those.

I think they're saying that coffee is a healthier habit than soda.

Perhaps this is the sign of a true addict but I would never travel someplace new without a backup supply of coffee. I always at least bring instant coffee; if it’s a longer trip I might bring a portable grinder and aeropress.

And yet: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49304804